PC magazine did some tests comparing the Radeon 8500 and the GeForce3 Ti500, and the Radeon beat the GeForce3 in only 1 of their 8 tests, and the margin was minimal (I believe the Radeon won by 2% or something). the Radeon takes a major performace hit when anti-aliasing is enabled. neways, NVidia makes way better cards, esp. now since the GeForce4 is out and it owns every other grfx card on the market (not to mension it drives down the prices of it's lesser counterparts, namely the GeForce3 and 2)