Allow me to make the first reply, Mr. "True Man".

I will buy pirated to test out the game. Sure, you can demo it at the game store if it's a console game, but can you say the same for a PC game? And what if it's an import? Can you really risk believing reviews for the game? I bought Morrowind as pirated, hoping that it will live though my expectations as a top-caliber game due to its good reviews, and then buy an original copy if I liked it. But after only five minutes through the game, I quit it, uninstalled it and never touched the CD again. Just wasn't my type of game I guess. Now can you imagine yourself blowing 40, 50 dollars on a game you played for only 5 minutes? Return policies suddenly ain't that crystal clear either, since you already opened the package. You will most certainly bang your head on the wall for such a blunder.

As for console games, I only do that if there's a pirate version of a Japanese game that I like. I try it out, and if I like it I usually have it FedExed first thing in the morning. If not, oh well, one more CD goes to the trash can, or I give it away.

Such are my views. Software companies (as well as a certain Kaiser Sigma) might not like my approach, but hey, I'm only exercising my skills as a smart consumer. After all, it's my money.

 

Shiori,..Kaisar, i hope this thread wont be closed like previous "Microsft gets Li Sang" thread. Priacy will not be whipped out unless gaming/software companies lower their prices, thats my opinion

PS: strickly speaking, why should i buy an original one when i can get a copy? thats how most of us would think,.............

 

This thread is truly flame bait.....

 

Logically, that's the smart way; but it creates an imbalance because somebody gets robbed of rightful compensation, which would be the hardworking game developers that create those games we enjoy.

 

Originally posted by ChrisRay
This thread is truly flame bait.....

Well, we'll see. As long as the people who post here post even a halfway decent post with some content related to the topic, then this will turn out to be an interesting debate. But if any NGEmu member attempts this childish way of dealing with people who oppose his particular view on this topic, I will not hesitate closing this thread and temp banning the one who instigates the flame war.

 

I will only download games that are impossible to get here. EG. CT for pc. Other than that i will buy the game, just because its better to have the real disc.

 

and original games come with a box and a manual, and I kinda like that.

(OT: Still a little dissapointed in the GP4 box; It's carbon, with the size of a DVD case (only much thicker), but it's deceiving since I expected the larger box would contain a large, cool manual (just like in GP2 and 3) but instead you get this small, uninteresting thingie. Why didnt they put it in a regular dvd case then? =P)

 

Originally posted by Shiori


Well, we'll see. As long as the people who post here post even a halfway decent post with some content related to the topic, then this will turn out to be an interesting debate. But if any NGEmu member attempts this childish way of dealing with people who oppose his particular view on this topic, I will not hesitate closing this thread and temp banning the one who instigates the flame war.

I've already made my point about this very clear. Piracy shouldn't be available to the common public. Therefore I support any actions a company takes to try and limit it.

The difference between Western and Eastern World is piracy is available there. The option exists for you guys. You can take advantage of it as much as you'd like. The people in the west would do the same if the option existed. But it doesn't here. And I don't buy the whole "Since we make less than you. We deserve it to be cheaper"

However that clearly doesn't give the option a "right" to exist. It's stealing. No matter how you slice it. You can't change the fact that it exists currently. If your advocate for or against it. It won't make a difference. As long as the cheaper option is available. The Consumer will choose it. As the quality really won't be any different. Not to warrant spending more.


Now I advocate for companies to use every means within there power to end it. Be it digital signatures and adding features to modern day proccessors. Shutting down companies. Sueing companies like napster for media sharing. Anything that will limit how easily obtained pirated software is.

 

Originally posted by Shiori

(...) But if any NGEmu member attempts this childish way of dealing with people who oppose his particular view on this topic, I will not hesitate closing this thread and temp banning the one who instigates the flame war.

First of all I found out that this will be quite a good debate, mostly because I haven't seen this topic (piracy) discussed on the entire NGEmu database. I really want to know what ppl think, because I took for granted that everyone was against piracy but lately I realized it's not true. I want to know why ppl points of view, that's all... Shiori only thing I'll say is that this is the third or fourth time you direct to me in such a "harsh" way. I don't remember addressing you in a bad way, so do try and do the same... and please do not threaten me... I'm not going for a flame war, I'm going for a topic that nobody discussed yet... BTW I don't like the nickname "Mr True Man"

Kingstar your point is kinda true... but not always applicable, look at Sega. The Dreamcast games were pretty cheap (with the exception of PSO ver 2) yet it was one of the gaming consoles who suffered most piracy... I'm not sure that even with low prices ppl will stop buying pirate games...

 

Software piracy has existed since the days Bill Gates created his first programs on punch cards and tape.

Why would it go away now?

 

it's not the fact that it has to go away just right now, but what do you think about it... how much are you willing to fight to see a video game market clean of pirates... if you think it should go away that is...

 

I try to have as many legit games as possible, but unfortunately, some games are not released here that I want to play. I try to import them, but it's not always practical.

 

that I know... my only option for importing used to be EBgames but the shipping fee is too expensive... they charge too much...

 

I don't like Pirated games. Sometimes they have big problems (I bought pirated FF9, and it came with most CGs animations uncomplete.), and most of the time, the cds sucks. But sometimes I buy pirate games. The reason is: not all original games can be bought. Sometimes 'cause its too old, sometimes 'cause it was forbidden (like Carmagedom). For psx games, here in Brazil is hard to find them (Sony never released PSX or PS2 here) So I have to buy pirated games. If the game is REALY REALY good, I ALWAYS get the original copy (in some imports stores. They are expensive, though). I have Xenogears, FF8 and Castlevania: SOTN pirate, but bought the original copies anyway. (They are realy great games!)

 

piracy sucks, its just like any other crime and the only reason ppl do it is most like because the internet makes it so easy,I have over a thousand mp3s I did not pay for cause it is easy.

 

Originally posted by ChrisRay

As long as the cheaper option is available. The Consumer will choose it. As the quality really won't be any different. Not to warrant spending more.

that's only partially true; I personally think there's quite a difference between a legimate and a pirate copy. It's simply much cooler to own the real disc, with manual and box and all (provided you like the game) than having a copy smacked on a cd-r.

Also, same situation as Lord Kane here. a (quite large) number of games are available easier illegal than legal. For example, I've been searching for 3 years until I finally found a Virtua Fighter 2 PC CD.

btw. I guess many people will disagree on this one, but IMO if you make a copy of a CD it's NOT the same as stealing one from a shop. I think there's quite a difference between those two.

 

Almost all my games are pirated; my only original games are FF7, 8 and 9 for the PSX, and Anachronox for PC. Sorry... It's not that I support piracy... it's only that I don't feel like spending ~30 euros in a videogame... Of course it is very cool to have the original CD, with its beautiful manual and all of that... but I cannot afford it, man!! All my music CD's are original though...

 

Also, same situation as Lord Kane here. a (quite large) number of games are available easier illegal than legal. For example, I've been searching for 3 years until I finally found a Virtua Fighter 2 PC CD

This is actually one of the areas I actually condone it. And I will admit. The Dark Wizard game I own is not legit. I searched for it for almost a year. And I was willing to take it anyway I could get it.

The Strange thing is. I have this Virtua Fighter 2 PC game for as long as I can remember. Segasoft didn't release them down there?

 

That's another point... how do you explain that games such as Xenogears (XENOGEARS!!!), Chrono Cross, the Lunar series, the Suikoden series, Star Ocean 2, and many other must-haves weren't released in Spain? How was I supposed to get them? And this may not be a problem for me, but they are in English and the vast majority of people here don't have a high enough understanding of English as to play these games... Is this fair? So we gotta put up with their unfair acts and then be fair with them? Yeah, I know that is what we all are supposed to do, to forgive and have piety and all of that, but if both sides don't show respect to this 'pact', we are going nowhere... Sorry, I sorta went off topic :embl:

 

Originally posted by Kid A
Almost all my games are pirated; my only original games are FF7, 8 and 9 for the PSX, and Anachronox for PC. Sorry... It's not that I support piracy... it's only that I don't feel like spending ~30 euros in a videogame... Of course it is very cool to have the original CD, with its beautiful manual and all of that... but I cannot afford it, man!! All my music CD's are original though...

a matter of preference. It depends a lot on how much you like a product. Example: I'm a NFS freak, from NFS2 I have the normal, SE AND psx version (last one was a bargain though). Why? because I really like the series, and that's definately something that comes into play. You see, I wouldnt do that for most other games .
There's also software, or music, that you like, but not a lot; that is, not enough to shell out say, 30 euros for (btw most videogames I know are more expensive than that, sadly :/). So, you could either not buy it or copy it because you wouldnt buy it anyways. While strictly spoken thats not legal, it doesnt hurt sales at all. You probably value the music you buy more than the games you play.

Piracy, while in it roots may be a black & white thing, actually isnt when you look further.

We have a person called "Gamer X". Gamer X wants to buy a psx but finds it (and the games) too expensive, so he doesnt. He learns of a mod chip but thats illegal so he still doesnt.
Now comes his friend, called "Gamer Y". Gamer Y wants to buy a psx but finds it (and the games) too expensive, so he doesnt. Then he learns about the phenomenon called "mod chip". So he buys the psx, mod chip, quite a few games as well, but also copies a number of them. In the process he buys a number of cd-r's and also had to replace his crappy cd burner with a better one.

Now, of course, if we strictly follow our laws, Gamer X was right and Gamer Y was wrong.
But I really doubt who the game companies would like better. Gamer X, because he was such a nice lad who followed the law or Gamer Y, who maybe made a bunch of pirate copies but they made money thanks to him, and besides, the cd-r company got a nice amount of money too

Now we take a third person, "Gamer Z". Gamer Z buys a modded psx, a burner, rents/borrows huge amounts of games, copies them and sells them, making profit. Now no doubt the game companies definately wouldnt like him. The manufacturers of cd-r's would prolly hug him tho

Gamer Z's definately cause mayor losses for game manufacturers. Gamer Y's would probably leave the market pretty stable. Gamer X's would create an Utopia but the economy might collapse though.

Btw, it brings me to another point; if no-one would pirate, no CD burners would be sold. Not much at least, because backups really arent THAT important to most people. Same for cd-r's. See, and by the way, isnt it funny that Sony themselves sell equipment that's suited to copy their own stuff with? Quite funny if you ask me. See, in a way companies support it themselves. They would like you to buy games and consoles and cd-r's but only use it like they want it. While in the meantime you also pay a lot for your broadband internet connection which of course you may only use for email and a little bit of browsing. And do you honestly think, that everybody will just follow in those steps? of course not. Believe me, they rather have people buying stuff and copying a bit than people not buying at all, because THAT would be a REAL problem.

 

Originally posted by Kid A
And this may not be a problem for me, but they are in English and the vast majority of people here don't have a high enough understanding of English as to play these games...

I don't have a good enough understanding of Japanese to play some games which are never released to the west. So what do I do?
a) Complain until they release then in English: Not gonna happen. There aren't enough people who want these games.
b) Learn Nihongo: Preffered soloution.

Complaining about it won't get you anywhere, so you have to seek alternative options.

 

I know I know, but that wasn't the point... I wanted to show that they are not fair to us, but we do have to be fair to them, and said that I don't find that fair at all... As for searching for a solution, I have found one: download the games that are not released here... That doesn't harm gaming industry at all: if they are not released here, then do I have to suppose they don't want us to have them, or that they already have earned enough money with that game and so they will not care to release it in the poor country 'X' with its extremely rare ( ) 'X' language? The wise words of Samor here show what I feel... I would be a gamer Y... I don't really harm industry because I will not buy games that, on the other hand I would download/borrow/copy, etc.

 

A lot of my games I bought but I do have some pirated ones as well. Still, most of the good ones I pay for (there are only so many good PC games). If I like the game and play it frequently then I will want to support the developers who put a lot of their time and effort into it for my enjoyment. I used to pirate frequently in my younger days but I hardly ever do anymore. I think piracy was just a phase for me and I've gotten over it. Although it's cool to get a game for free or cheap I have no problems paying for the software (as long as it isn't too expensive ).

As for console games I do have a lot of ROMs but I hardly ever touch NES and SNES emulation anymore. I mostly play CPS2 (Capcom Play System 2) games and Razoola only releases XORs of games that are not available in arcades anymore so it doesn't hurt Capcom in any way. As for PSX emulation I do have some pirated PSX CDs but mostly because I couldn't find them in local stores. PSX CDs are cheap now but some games are very hard to find and I must resort to other methods to get them.

I don't quite agree with piracy and MP3s though. I mean how can you put a price on music or sound? Plus I don't believe the current system is fair. CDs cost around $17 (CDN) around here but a lot of the times there are only a few good tracks you want on it. Although there are albums that I bought which are worth it (Our Lady Peace, Everclear, etc.) certain others that I bought like Blur and Nine Inch Nails only had a couple of good songs on it. And if you want a certain song by a certain artist you again have to pay the full price for just that one song. When I search for MP3s it's usually only for a single song, I don't download albums. Furthermore most CDs have around 12-14 tracks in total when the average CD can fit around 18 tracks or more (depending on the length). I think they need to work on a more flexible system that benefits the customer more. I would much rather have a system where I can pick and choose my own songs. How cool would it be to have a store (perhaps an on-line store) where I can shop for songs for my own music CD and order it. I'd gladly pay $17 or more for a customized CD full of my tracks that I hand-picked myself. Of course there would also be some waiting time while they compile the CD but I wouldn't mind, because I'm getting a CD with songs that I want. I also think this is why MP3s are so popular. Aside from the fact that they're easy to acquire they're less of a hassle (don't have to fumble with CDs), you only acquire the songs that you want (less wasted space) and you can customize your own play list. The system is so flexible and practical and I wonder why the music industry hasn't caught onto it. I dunno, perhaps I'm asking for too much but I believe the system can be changed for the better. If I'm going to spend my money I want to know that I'm spending it on something good and something I'm going to enjoy.

 

Originally posted by Demigod79
A lot of my games I bought but I do have some pirated ones as well. Still, most of the good ones I pay for (there are only so many good PC games). If I like the game and play it frequently then I will want to support the developers who put a lot of their time and effort into it for my enjoyment. I used to pirate frequently in my younger days but I hardly ever do anymore. I think piracy was just a phase for me and I've gotten over it. Although it's cool to get a game for free or cheap I have no problems paying for the software (as long as it isn't too expensive ).

As for console games I do have a lot of ROMs but I hardly ever touch NES and SNES emulation anymore. I mostly play CPS2 (Capcom Play System 2) games and Razoola only releases XORs of games that are not available in arcades anymore so it doesn't hurt Capcom in any way. As for PSX emulation I do have some pirated PSX CDs but mostly because I couldn't find them in local stores. PSX CDs are cheap now but some games are very hard to find and I must resort to other methods to get them.

I don't quite agree with piracy and MP3s though. I mean how can you put a price on music or sound? Plus I don't believe the current system is fair. CDs cost around $17 (CDN) around here but a lot of the times there are only a few good tracks you want on it. Although there are albums that I bought which are worth it (Our Lady Peace, Everclear, etc.) certain others that I bought like Blur and Nine Inch Nails only had a couple of good songs on it. And if you want a certain song by a certain artist you again have to pay the full price for just that one song. When I search for MP3s it's usually only for a single song, I don't download albums. Furthermore most CDs have around 12-14 tracks in total when the average CD can fit around 18 tracks or more (depending on the length). I think they need to work on a more flexible system that benefits the customer more. I would much rather have a system where I can pick and choose my own songs. How cool would it be to have a store (perhaps an on-line store) where I can shop for songs for my own music CD and order it. I'd gladly pay $17 or more for a customized CD full of my tracks that I hand-picked myself. Of course there would also be some waiting time while they compile the CD but I wouldn't mind, because I'm getting a CD with songs that I want. I also think this is why MP3s are so popular. Aside from the fact that they're easy to acquire they're less of a hassle (don't have to fumble with CDs), you only acquire the songs that you want (less wasted space) and you can customize your own play list. The system is so flexible and practical and I wonder why the music industry hasn't caught onto it. I dunno, perhaps I'm asking for too much but I believe the system can be changed for the better. If I'm going to spend my money I want to know that I'm spending it on something good and something I'm going to enjoy.

All my 100 PSX cds are pirated discs,..yes they are. I cant offord getting 100 original cd were ever psx cd costs ( ~35 CAN ) . I can't! not to mention that there risks getting an original game, where the game simply sucks!! Thats why i get psx copies. ROMs issue: N64, SNES, NES and genises are dead,..i belive that after a console dies, it IS LEGAL to get ROMS for emulation, since it wouldnt hurt the game company which released it

 

Originally posted by Demigod79
A lot of my games I bought but I do have some pirated ones as well. Still, most of the good ones I pay for (there are only so many good PC games). If I like the game and play it frequently then I will want to support the developers who put a lot of their time and effort into it for my enjoyment. I used to pirate frequently in my younger days but I hardly ever do anymore. I think piracy was just a phase for me and I've gotten over it. Although it's cool to get a game for free or cheap I have no problems paying for the software (as long as it isn't too expensive ).

Maybe you're right... surely, if my crappy job gave some more money, I would buy some original games (cheap ones) instead of wasting time downloading/renting them... BUT! Right now I have enough with spending my money on clothes, music, going out, and... buying blank CD's j/k

EDIT: That song purchasing system you mentioned would be pretty cool, but many artists would complain because people would be judging them by certain songs instead of the whole album, which is their complete job and the feelings/ideas they want to show... But yeah, I would like it...