[@ruantec]

The next generation version of Microsoft's DirectX API was revealed to an industry audience on Thursday at the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco.


Anuj Gosalia, development manager for graphics at Microsoft, claimed that DirectX 12 will work in some form across all Microsoft platforms; A position in line with the corporation's ethos of uniting tablets, computers and games consoles with the same operating systems.

That means that new DirectX 12 production capabilities will be arriving on the Xbox One platform. Microsoft claimed that the overall CPU utilisation has been halved when compared to DX11, with workloads better spread across CPU cores.

Microsoft was thin on details, but claimed that the new tech will give applications better control over graphics memory usage, resulting in better efficiency and thus more room to do more.

Developers in attendance have Tweeted key slides from the GDC presentation, which roughly outlines various technological advancements.


Image: Zeeshan Mhaskar
Turn 10 made an appearance at the event to showcase Forza 5 running on PC with Direct3D 12 at 60 frames per second.

Source:
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...ideogames.com/454967/directx-12-announced-works-across-all-microsoft-platforms/

 

[@ruantec]

Now that we are at it and with Turn 10 showing off Forza 5 on PC it basically mean we won't need a Emulator for the Xbox One right? now move your a$$ MS and give me this beauty for the PC and i'm going to love you more:

 

[resolutespider5]

Works across all platforms... but the catch is only on the latest versions. They will keep this a Windows 8.1 exclusive I think. This will lessen uptake.

I think that actual real world improvements remain to be seen. I wouldn't imagine that they will be particularily greater than AMD mantle, with the greatest fps improvements being seen in systems with poorer CPUs. This is because they cut down on all the processing needed to change a Direct 3D command to a more native command in the graphics driver. So these new APIs don't decrease the workload on the GPU but rather the workload on the CPU. But the GPUs receive more draw calls so the frame rate increases.

Any improvements to DX12 that will be made will be mainly by hardware specific extensions mainly I think, although optimisations will of course be made.

Interesting thing I saw was this: http://www.dsogaming.com/news/john-...vidias-opengl-extensions-rival-mantle-8gb-on-consoles-not-a-significant-change/

John Carmack thinks that improvements in draw calls through AMD Mantle will be similar to that through Open GL nVidia extensions. nVidia OpenGL extensiosn are like Mantle I think as they provide hardware-specific commands, thus creating an extended API.

Claims of 9X draw calls for Mantle vs DirectX would most likely be seen on systems with low-end CPUs I think.

 

[Squall-Leonh@rt]

I think that actual real world improvements remain to be seen. I wouldn't imagine that they will be particularily greater than AMD mantle, with the greatest fps improvements being seen in systems with poorer CPUs. This is because they cut down on all the processing needed to change a Direct 3D command to a more native command in the graphics driver. So these new APIs don't decrease the workload on the GPU but rather the workload on the CPU. But the GPUs receive more draw calls so the frame rate increases.

Improvements were already demonstrated, of course they are only really visible on Low IPC amd processors.

 

[@ruantec]

 

[resolutespider5]

Improvements were already demonstrated, of course they are only really visible on Low IPC amd processors.

Improvements can be shown on powerful CPUs, but they are considerably less than on weak CPUs.

You can imagine low-level APIs like Mantle being quite beneficial with CPU-intensive games, even with powerful CPUs. For example something like Skyrim with ENB might show a significantly improved fps, especially with NPC battles. This will become more noticeable in the future as CPU requirements for games increases.

 

[@ruantec]

The good thing about this is that we may see high quality ports made in short time rather than some super crappy ones after years. Another positive thing is that we may see more quality games coming to PC which is nothing but great thinking that just the fact that development costs and time scared the shit out of companies was an excuse not to release those games for PC.

 

[resolutespider5]

Well we already knew an xb1 emulator very probably exists. Maybe it will end up leaked?
Xbox One Games At E3 Were Running On Windows 7 With Nvidia GTX Cards?
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xb...games/Xbox-One-Games-E3-Were-Running-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html

The good thing about this is that we may see high quality ports made in short time rather than some super crappy ones after years. Another positive thing is that we may see more quality games coming to PC which is nothing but great thinking that just the fact that development costs and time scared the shit out of companies was an excuse not to release those games for PC.

Agreed. But comercial considerations will stop this to some extent. For example it is unlikely that you'll ever see a PC port of Forza 5 so it remains a xb1 exclusive. Not because it would be difficult to port.

 

[@ruantec]

Well, current gen "Consoles" are PCs after all with a custom "rom" if you wanna call it that way Forza is obviously a exclusive for the Xbox line but i meant games from third party developers.

 

[Hard core Rikki]

Lemme guess, "all platforms" means it's exclusive to Windows 8 on PC, which will kill this on arrival.

 

[Squall-Leonh@rt]

The good thing about this is that we may see high quality ports made in short time rather than some super crappy ones after years. Another positive thing is that we may see more quality games coming to PC which is nothing but great thinking that just the fact that development costs and time scared the shit out of companies was an excuse not to release those games for PC.

You're ignoring a hell of a lot of details by saying that.

 

[@ruantec]

Lemme guess, "all platforms" means it's exclusive to Windows 8 on PC, which will kill this on arrival.

It's business you know.... at the end we can't expect to have Windows 98 support still

On a more serious note...what people keep overseeing is the fact that MS is finally trying to optimize there enviroment offering better ways to improve our code. As much as we may hate Windows 8 is actually the first time MS is at least trying to do that but people are just blind looking at metro instead of actually checking the good side. A while ago i wanted to create a thread about why metro apps can be better for the future eventho. i don't fully accept the limitations in comparison to desktop apps but with the hate spread here i decided not to in order to avoid another PS4-like discussion.

You're ignoring a hell of a lot of details by saying that.

Which ones??? there are always drawbacks in such moves after all.

 

[Squall-Leonh@rt]

Developer attitudes for one,
Developer Laziness as another.

 

[@ruantec]

Yeah but i actually meant future games coming for the Xbox One which will obviously be written using the DirectX 12 Api meaning is going to be compatible with Windows without the need of any effort. Forza for instance required very small amount of change and that just because the game wasn't developed with DirectX 12 in mind otherwise no effort would be required if MS allegations are true.

 

[Squall-Leonh@rt]

The improvements on the xbox one are actually overstated.... developers already have control over the immediate pipeline.

Sandy explains that this kind of gaming efficiency wasn't possible with earlier versions of DX, and suggests that many of its features are already present in Xbox One.

"Forza Motorsport 5 is an example of a game that pushes the Xbox One to the limit with its fast-paced photorealistic racing experience," wrote Sandy. "Under the hood, Forza achieves this by using the efficient low-level APIs already available on Xbox One today. Traditionally this level of efficiency was only available on console – now, Direct3D 12, even in an alpha state, brings this efficiency to PC and Phone as well. By porting their Xbox One Direct3D 11.X core rendering engine to use Direct3D 12 on PC, Turn 10 was able to bring that console-level efficiency to their PC tech demo."

 

[resolutespider5]

The improvements on the xbox one are actually overstated.... developers already have control over the immediate pipeline.

Yeah that's exactly right. The xb1 will have a low level API that the majority of devs will use. On the PS4 it's the same: few use OpenGL ES, but instead use the low-level GNM or the built in engine GNMX. See http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

Even on the PC with developments like Mantle and OpenGL nVidia extensions this won't be exciting. Likewise the Win 8.1 exclusivity will hinder significant uptake.

 

[@ruantec]

I think you guys haven't really got the idea.... the fact that games developed in DX12 are compatible with a wide range of devices its gonna make it attractive to developers who wants more profit with no need to port code over. That alone is a huge advantage over other technologies. I agree with you guys that it doesn't help the XB1 a lot since it already use a great api. However this api is for sure going to be more stable on the XB1.... but that's not really the point... the point is that is going to help great games that may come to the XB1 to appear on PC which is nothing but great and vice versa. I have no idea why you guys keep talking about other things when is quite clear what they are trying to do.

Basically this is going to allow every upcoming PC game developed in DX12 to appear on the XB1 and viceversa. I'm not a huge fan of MS latest moves but unifying the eco-system is nothing but a great move.

 

[resolutespider5]

But this is nothing new. APIs like DirectX and OpenGL have always helped with porting across platforms. e.g. the x360 console supported directX. And of course this is a good thing.

I was discussing whether DirectX 12 was likely to be a great advance over DirectX 11. And I think this is unlikely really.

 

[@ruantec]

I was discussing whether DirectX 12 was likely to be a great advance over DirectX 11. And I think this is unlikely really.

That's exactly the part i disagree and while i don't think is a mind blowing advance over DirectX 11 i personally think is a huge advance in terms of portability, availability and control over how you manage your resources. As a coder i know how good such things can be as it makes wonders on the end result. What actually excite me the most is that games are written once and played everywhere and that is something great. OpenGL is great and there is no doubt about it but OpenGL isn't used for many games on PC this days and as we know gaming on the PC platform really matters. This is one of the few moments when i would like to see "MASTER RACE" just to cement that statement.

Another point that i want to point out again is the posibility to play them everywhere. With that in mind upcoming PC games will theoretically run on the Xbox One and vice versa. That being said PC games can theoretically be released on the Xbox One without excuses and do not require a huge amount of porting or at all while on the PS4 having a different software architecture and OpenGL the story is going to different. This could be dangerous for the PS4 future and a very smart move from MS if you ask me but that remains to be seen as i doubt Sony is gonna stay hand-crossed.

 

[resolutespider5]

OK I think it's cool that you're enthusiastic about it, and good luck developing for the xb1.

My question is: the xb1 and pc also supports DX11. How big a difference would it make if you developed for DX11 on the PC and xb1? I don't think it would make that big a difference personally.