[Kaizen]

Last two people missed the part where he already has a LGA775/Core 2 platform and would likely be moving on to another platform soon anyway and giving the current one to a girlfriend.

Don't make me laugh at "future proofing". It's this simple. Buy the best you can now with the funds you have now. Always been that way. Buying smart is one thing. Buying with the future proofing excuse is another.

P.S. My initial mention of the E6800 was that for PCSX2, it plus a motherboard fit the budget of bang for the buck and cheap for PCSX2 since someone else brought up two other examples. I wasn't necessarily recommending it as the smartest or best path in this case. Depending on what he has now, a E6800 might not be a big jump nor worth the wait, but a E6800 might add a spark and last a bit, and then when he goes to pass it to his girlfriend, he could just jump to Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer. A Core i7 isn't exactly slow either should he just go for that and not care that it's a "dead path", so again, any path can be a good one. Depends on what he wants.

replace the word proofing with planning and stfu

 

[Princess Garnet]

Somebody is a little moody.

stfu

No.

You want to change the words up now? You realize by doing that, it changes the meaning of the claim. It changes your claim more in line with what I said here...

Buying smart is one thing. Buying with the future proofing excuse is another.

...because "future planning" pretty much falls under buying smart. If you want to change it up to future planning, you're pretty much agreeing with myself and going back on what you yourself said. That's ironic from someone who's telling me to shut up, and in the same sentence, no less.

 

[needsleepnow]

Wow, I seemed to have caused quite the little stir with my discussion I'm not that popular, haha
Just kidding

I'm liking the option of just being "cheap" for right now. Considering that the E6800 isn't released yet, I have a dilemma of either being a good little boy and waiting for the proc to be released, spending a few more dollars and getting an E7x00 series processor, or being ballsy and getting the E8400...Unless the E8400 gets real cheap (like a sale) then i'm probably am leaning for the E6x00 or E7x00 series (depending on availability at the time of purchase and price)...Does anybody know the release date of the E6800? Listed below are the rough specs of my board (because i'm a complete 'tard and forgot to list them)

I'm running a Celeron E1200 1.6 GHz...2 GB DDR2 (2x1) with Integrated Graphics (Yes, I know, I NEED to upgrade that )...I would stick a quad into my Mobo, but it's not compatible (I'm kicking myself for being so cheap with my board 3 years ago). Some of you were mentioning that I didn't mention my specs...Here they are, and now you have a little more insight.

My GF is running a Intel Celeron 2.7 GHz, 512 MB DDR, with a 40 GB IDE HDD...Her machine is in DIRE need of an upgrade, but her machine isn't worth putting any money into...A real dilemma...But she doesn't want me to spend much on her...She is a good woman and doesn't want me spending money on her if it doesn't need to happen.

Her "upgrade" wouldn't cost me much at all...Maybe the money for a couple cables, a case, and maybe some new fans. I can then use her machine and give to her Brother who is in MORE dire need of an upgrade (P4 1.6 GHz, 384 SDRAM, 10 GB HDD)...

Depending on what I swap out my mobo/proc I may need to do more research then...that could be 6 months from now...a year from now...maybe longer...maybe shorter, i have no idea...It all depends on how hard Nursing School kicks my tail and how much time I'm actually going to have (In early September, I'm having class Mon-Thurs from 8am-3pm then studying/30 page papers then on Friday/Sunday, I'm working 6-8 hrs/day + my GF who lives ~100 Miles away...and that is the EASIEST of the 4 semesters...shoot me )

Sorry for the rant at the end
Or I can just say "Naw, you get the E1200, it's better than what you use now, deal with it :lol:"

Edit: Edited Paragraph #2 - Strikethrough/comment at the end

 

[rui-no-onna]

I'm running a Celeron E1200 1.6 GHz...2 GB DDR2 (2x1) with Integrated Graphics (Yes, I know, I NEED to upgrade that )...I would stick a quad into my Mobo, but it's not compatible (I'm kicking myself for being so cheap with my board 3 years ago). Some of you were mentioning that I didn't mention my specs...Here they are, and now you have a little more insight.

Noticed that's a 65nm CPU. If you went cheap on the motherboard, then better make sure it supports 45nm Wolfdales first before you buy a processor. A brand-new C2D E8400 is more money than I'd sink an upgrade on given you can get a Core i3-530+mobo for just $10 more. While the E6800 looks pretty nice on paper, you won't really be losing much processing power by getting a cheaper Pentium E6500 and at least you wouldn't have to wait. The E7500 I've seen drop to $110 occasionally. Depends on you whether it's worth the extra few bucks or not. The E6800, I wouldn't really count on being available for $86 from retailers at launch.

If you're just after the higher multi, then the Pentium E5x00 are also worthy of consideration. The Pentium E5500 ($75 1ku) has a 14x multiplier and the same 2MB cache as the Pentium E6x00. At 1066MHz FSB (should be easy to achieve with a mild nudge to the Vcore), that's 3.73GHz. Heck it'll probably do it even at stock volts.

On second thought, the overclocking thing will probably depend on your motherboard.

 

[needsleepnow]

Buy the Abit I-45CV Motherboard at TigerDirect.ca

My motherboard ....no wait it's more like

 

[rui-no-onna]

The chipset supports 45nm processors. The only issue here is will the motherboard? Abit dropped out of the motherboard business a while ago and the most recent BIOS update is probably over a year old.

 

[needsleepnow]

Oh lovely...Great...I really got the worst MoBo imaginable for upgrading :lol:...

So would upgrading my Processor not be smart then...bleh, back to square 1.

 

[rui-no-onna]

Found the ABIT CPU support list for your motherboard. Right now, looks like you'll be taking a risk if you upgrade given that even the E8x00 processors with E0 stepping are stuck on "Test" and so is the Core 2 Duo E5200 with 1066FSB, which I assume is an engineering sample.

The earlier recommendations still stand assuming you're on a tight budget:

• Brand: Intel
• Socket: LGA-1156
• Chipset: H55 / H57
• CPU: Core i3-5x0 (2C)
• Memory: DDR3
• Upgrade Path: Core i5-7x0 (4C) / Core i7-8x0 (4C). Core i5-6xx (2C) is also an option but it's not really worth upgrading to.
• Cost: $180~250

• Brand: Intel
• Socket: LGA-775
• Chipset: G31 / G41
• CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5x00 (2C) / Pentium E6x00 (2C)
• Memory: DDR2 / DDR3
• Upgrade Path: Price for higher end processors is pretty high. Switching to a new platform is better value for money.
• Cost: $120~180

• Brand: AMD
• Socket: AM3
• Chipset: 780G / 785G / 880G / 770 / 870
• CPU: Athlon II X2 2xx (2C) / Phenom II X2 5xx (2C)
• Memory: DDR2 / DDR3
• Upgrade Path: Phenom II X4 9xx (4C) / Phenom II X6 10xxT (6C)
• Cost: $130~180

2C=dual-core, 4C=quad-core, 6C=hexa-core

If you've got a Fry's nearby check out their weekly MB/CPU combo's. I got my i3-530+Biostar TH55B HD from them for just $115. You're pretty much getting the mobo for free. This past Wednesday, they had a good deal on the Phenom II X4.

If you're not really looking to build anytime soon, waiting for Sandy Bridge (Q4'10 or Q1'11) and Bulldozer (2011?) might be worthwhile. Sandy Bridge will be utilizing new sockets (LGA-2011 and LGA-1155) and given the purported significant architectural changes, Bulldozer will probably require a new socket, too.

I guess the question here is how much longer can you stand using that Celeron E1200? Don't get me wrong, I think it's a pretty good chip for simple web browsing, word processor and other light duties. However, it's not exactly ideal for CPU intensive applications and I can't imagine the meager 512KB cache is helping it any.

 

[needsleepnow]

Yea...I don't feel like dropping any significant money in experimenting with my motherboard...at least not until I make more money.

I wish I had a Fry's or Microcenter, there are no real tech stores in my area. I think we MIGHT have a Microcenter maybe 75 miles away or more in Virginia (I live in Maryland...quite literally on the southern-Most tip).

The Celeron E1200 originally did the job...I was looking for pretty much a torrenting PC at the time. While it still works it's becoming laborious to do much of anything...NES Emulation is slow at best @1024x768...It still works and I can still use it, but I would do more on my PC if I had something better.

I've done some thinking, and based upon the posts that I've looked at from here and on another Private Tracker, I'm probably leaning with either the Intel i5-750, or i-665K (or i5-660, if there is little difference) (You guys can tell me which one of these are better). The only way that I'll choose the AMD QuadCore Black is if it's compatible with BullDozer

Here is my logic:
Just about anything I choose, I'm losing...I can't really upgrade my processor...LGA 775, LGA 1156, and LGA 1356 are all "dead" platforms...The only one that even has a glimmer of hope is AM3, and that hope is fading because the architecture is very different. The only hope I have is that AMD keeps their backward and frontward compatibility trend going strong, like AMD is so awesome for doing.
Right now, I'm fairly screwed for "future-proofing." Now is NOT the best time to buy a mobo/proc...
If we were to look at overall performance, the i5-750 would be the fastest, and that is a ~$200 processor. the i3-530 is ~$115. I could probably justify the $85 just in the fact that it would be better at multi-tasking and not bog down my other applications.
Now, I could go cheap, in hopes of immediately upgrading by getting an AMD X2 555BE ($99) and "hopefully" unlocking the other 2 cores (or just get the X4 965BE for $80 more and guarantee my quad core godliness and save a few bucks in the process)

i3 VS i5 - How much better?
x2 vs x4 - How much better?

now between the winners of both of the above questions, how much better is one above the other?

Edit: Yea, I pretty much rewrote it as I mulled over possible options

 

[rui-no-onna]

But here is a question...Since we are looking at overall clock speed, wouldn't it be better to get the i5-650, 660, or 655K than the 750? and really, is it worth it to go i5, when i3 and AMD quad is cheaper?

Any i5-6x0, you'd be better off overclocking a Core i3-5x0. The i5-750 has the advantage of being a quad-core and while it has a slower stock clock, Turbo Boost helps the Lynnfields quite a bit when running in dual-core and single-core mode. Iirc, the i5-750 goes up to 3.2GHz in dual-core mode and 3.33GHz in single-core.

From the FFX-2 benchmark:

75.29 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i7 920 - 4.0 GHz OC - Unr3al
67.94 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i7 920 - 3.6 GHz OC - Master_DX
63.49 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 - 4.12 GHz OC - rama
61.07 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i3 530 - 3.5 GHz OC - ilovejedd
59.70 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5400 - 4.0 GHz OC - Shadow Lady
59.59 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 - 3.8 GHz OC - antespo
59.48 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i7 860 - 2.8 GHz Stock (Turbo Boost on, CPU affinity: 2 & 3) - ilovejedd
57.87 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i7 860 - 2.8 GHz Stock (Turbo Boost on) - ilovejedd
57.04 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i3 530 - 3.3 GHz OC - ilovejedd
53.33 FPS - SLUS 20672 - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T - 3.33 GHz OC (Turbo Core on) - ilovejedd
51.95 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i7 860 - 2.8 GHz Stock (Turbo Boost off) - ilovejedd
50.47 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i3 530 - 2.93 GHz Stock - ilovejedd
49.16 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i7 920 - 2.66 GHz Stock - Unr3al
49.08 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core i7 920 - 2.66 GHz Stock - Master_DX
48.41 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 - 3.00 GHz Stock - antespo
48.05 FPS - SLUS 20672 - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T - 3.33 GHz OC (Turbo Core off) - ilovejedd
46.44 FPS - SLUS 20672 - AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition - 3.2 GHz Stock - denimu
46.38 FPS - SLUS 20672 - AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition - 3.2 GHz Stock (unlocked to 4-cores) - denimu
44.38 FPS - SLUS 20672 - AMD Athlon II X2 250 - 3.00 GHz Stock - denimu
43.30 FPS - SLUS 20672 - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T - 2.80 GHz Stock (Turbo Core on) - ilovejedd
40.20 FPS - SLUS 20672 - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T - 2.80 GHz Stock (Turbo Core off) - ilovejedd

As you may notice, there's practically no difference between the Phenom II X2 555 with only 2 cores or with all 4.

Personally, I would go with the i3-530. While there are inexpensive AM3 motherboards, you'd pay around the same for a decent quality board with a more recent chipset as you would one based on H55. Clock for clock, the new Core i-series architecture is just better than AMD's Athlon or Phenom. Overclock the i3-530 to 4GHz and I don't think you'd need to upgrade for years.

 

[Princess Garnet]

59.70 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5400 - 4.0 GHz OC - Shadow Lady
59.59 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 - 3.8 GHz OC - antespo

Well well well, it seems clock speed trumps cache afterall, hungh? Obviously we're talking a difference of .11FPS and the E8400 would likely top that given 200MHz more, but it goes to show the difference is more of a measly one, at least in this case (and I'd bet most cases in PCSX2's case), and I wager anything with at least 2MB (1MB per core) wouldn't be hampered in the least.

rui-no-onna, you're missing the part where he says he doesn't want to overclock. Unless that's changed, despite your (and many people here) views, some people just don't want to. A higher stock clock would be ideal.

P.S. By the way, where is this Final Fantasy X-2 benchmark?

 

[rui-no-onna]

Well well well, it seems clock speed trumps cache afterall, hungh? Obviously we're talking a difference of .11FPS and the E8400 would likely top that given 200MHz more, but it goes to show the difference is more of a measly one, at least in this case (and I'd bet most cases in PCSX2's case), and I wager anything with at least 2MB (1MB per core) wouldn't be hampered in the least.

I actually based my conclusions on a few stock results:

41.78 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 - 2.66 GHz Stock - prafull (yes, older Conroe)
40.97 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Pentium Dual-Core E6300 - 2.80 GHz - ilovejedd
40.10 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 - 2.53 GHz Stock - pcsx2fan
39.69 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5400 - 2.7 GHz Stock - Shadow Lady
36.66 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5300 - 2.6 GHz Stock - Shadow Lady
35.20 FPS - SLUS 20672 - Intel Celeron Dual-Core E3300 - 2.5 GHz Stock - ilovejedd

Clock for clock, the E7200 seems to be on equal footing with the E8400. By the looks of things, going from 2MB -> 3MB on the Core 2 gives an extra ~1FPS/GHz while there's no noticeable gain beyond 3MB cache. A pretty minor increase but the extra cache would also be helpful in other applications (particularly PC gaming).

rui-no-onna, you're missing the part where he says he doesn't want to overclock. Unless that's changed, despite your (and many people here) views, some people just don't want to. A higher stock clock would be ideal.

I don't know... His posts seem to indicate he's not particularly averse to overclocking as long as it doesn't kill his CPU. The issue with processors with higher clocks is the price increases exponentially while performance only increases linearly. To get 60FPS on the FFX-2 benchmark, you'd need a Core i5-670 3.46GHz which costs $290. It would also seem no AMD CPU running at stock has the ability to deliver 60FPS on this particular benchmark. However, it's not as if the i3-530 at stock is a slouch. It's roughly equivalent to a Core 2 Duo E8500 running at 3.2GHz but at least the i3 offers better upgrade options than LGA-775 despite also being on a dead-end socket.

It's really too bad ABIT dropped out of the motherboard business. The 945GC chipset supports 45nm processors. Unfortunately, it seems like a new BIOS might be required by some manufacturers. If the op's willing to take a risk, he might be able to run a Pentium Wolfdale on his board even without a BIOS update. I was able to drop a Pentium E6300 on an ECS 945GCT-M/1333 with BIOS date 2008-08-28 and it worked just fine. The Pentium E6300 was released Q2'09.

P.S. By the way, where is this Final Fantasy X-2 benchmark?

CPU Benchmark designed for PCSX2 based on FFX-2

It should be noted however that the PCSX2 developers have mentioned the benchmark is a bit of a special case and the extremely low FPS is probably due to a bug. FPS in actual gameplay is much faster than the FMV's.

 

[Princess Garnet]

I had a feeling it was a special case. You don't need to drop $290 to get a CPU that plays PCSX2 nearly fullspeed nearly all of the time stock. The Pentium Dual-cores over 3.0GHz are already decent as-is. I put an E8400 C0 in my Gigabyte G31 motherboard with the stock BIOS, date probably sometime around 2008 or maybe even 2007, and it worked well (at least at stock). A CPU is much cheaper than a CPU, new motherboard, RAM, etc., and a video card will definitely be needed either way. I'd say try a sub $100 E6x00 3.0GHz+ and hope it works, and if not, send the CPU back. You'll lose shipping costs, but there's the chance it'll work, and if not, if you'll be needing to buy multiple new parts, a couple bucks shipping won't be much for trying to save to start. Just what I'd do though.

 

[rui-no-onna]

I'd say try a sub $100 E6x00 3.0GHz+ and hope it works, and if not, send the CPU back.

Can you do that? I thought you can't return processors unless it's for replacement.

 

[needsleepnow]

Please forgive this butchered post...I had a nice one written, but I bumped the "forward" button on my mouse and lost it... >_>

Buying/returning the processor to an online vendor isn't an option because they have a "no refund" return policy...Otherwise a Wolfdale processor might have been a great stopgap option.

Those FPS scores is a great thing that you posted rui-no-onna...thanks ... That gives me a great idea of what to get, (or what I should avoid).

I find it funny that on stock the majority of the LGA 1156 processors beat out the i7-920...but when you overclock, the i7 goes ridiculously fast and has higher performance jumps overall...But is it worth the cost??? I don't know (probably not), but I do have a chunk of money to put down...I just want to make sure I do this right the first time.

Since the general consensus is that I should avoid AMD...I'm planning on doing so...Not to say that going the AMD route is bad, but that Intel is better.

I'm more than likely NOT going to go down the path of the LGA 1356...I really can't justify it, especially seeing that I can OC an i3 to get very close to the same overall performance for like 1/3 the cost.

Speaking of OCing...I'm not against it...It's just that I don't know what i'm doing...I would like to learn...I'm sure it's easy but I would like to know how ...It would save me probably $400 in the process

What I'm leaning towards is either the i3-530 (75%)...the i5-750 (19%)...the i7 920 or 930 (4%) or something else (1%)...I like the smaller nm with the i3 and the lower wattage overall...that would tell me that it would be better suited than the Lynnfield when to comes to overclocking...but I kinda like the Lynnfield because it's a true quadcore...That's my dillema.

I think I found my MoBo/RAM...I found this while trolling down Dell Coupons, Best Deals, Discount Cheap Laptops, Computer Sale, Codes ... Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!


What do you think of this combo overall and for overclocking?

 

[Princess Garnet]

Since all platforms are "dead", and LGA1156 gives similar performance for less money, I'd say it's the best bet, since an LGA775 CPU would A) be good, but void giving a better PC to your girlfriend, and B) your right, I forgot that CPUs have a no return policy, and C) there's the chance it might not work. If you knew it'd work, good option, but if you're willing to part with more cash, it sounds like the next best thing.

 

[needsleepnow]

My girlfriend would hardly use the computer sadly save for maybe an hr or 2 every other day...she has a rambunctious, but adorable as hell, little girl .

I'm still thinking about trying that processor but AFTER I build my PC...if it works, great...my GF can have an E5300 (or something like that)...if it doesn't, then I acquire a cheapish mobo then give that to her...then take my POS abit mobo and let her younger brother (or mother) use it at their grandparents (and make it the cheapest build of all time)

What does anyone think of that board/mobo combo deal that i posted...not only for OCing but in general?

 

[rui-no-onna]

Lynnfield and Bloomfield perform the same clock for clock (~18+FPS/GHz), while Clarkdale is just a little bit behind (~17+FPS/GHz).

The i3-530 and i7-930 are easier to overclock than the i5-750. The on-die PCIe controller on Lynnfield requires upping the voltage quite a bit and makes overclocking a bit tricky. The i3-530 is a pretty easy overclock as long as you use a discrete graphics card. I seem to recall reading a post in another forum that a motherboard with P55 chipset such as the combo you saw on Newegg is better than H55/H57 as it would give you the option to use Crossfire or SLI when paired with Clarkdale. While that doesn't exactly help in PCSX2, nowadays it does actually help in PC gaming particularly on higher resolutions.

Not really all that familiar with G.SKILL but it seems to work okay and that's a pretty amazing price for 8GB of RAM.

 

[needsleepnow]

Hehe, wow, it looks like I found the jackpot then

Just more questions, then I can be out of your guys hair.What processor cooler would one recommend for insane overclocking?

Edit: I bookmarked how to overclock the processor