[runawayprisoner]

To me:

Custom-built PC > Mac > prebuilt PCs > Overclocked PCs.

In terms of price/value/stability. And before anyone says you've got a 4GHz quad sitting on that desk, tell me if it's still surviving... 5 years from now.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Well, my overclocked Athlon XP 2500+ (at 2.3 GHz) is still running great, over 6 years after being built. It's been at 2.3 for most of that time. Going higher than that requires 1.9v+. It runs [email protected] 24/7 too .

That thing should probably last longer than a quad-core.

That's a huge generalization right there. My overclock needs very little voltage (1.2V). It won't damage the chip anytime soon, not even if five years I'd think (if it does, then it wouldn't had lasted any longer either way). My CPU is "only" overclocked 20% (although I did have it 33% overclocked at 4.5GHz for a while).

Note that I didn't say CPU... I meant the entire system as a whole. :innocent:

As Cid Highwind said, what I worry about most is the MCH temperatures. Mine has always run hot, right from day one. I even did the modification of removing the heatpipe and reapplying the stock paste with Arctic Silver 5, a method that was claimed to almost for sure lower temperatures by ~10C because ASUS uses paste that bad, but my temperatures... pretty much didn't move. I should had RMAd it from the start, but it wasn't terribly high, not just as low as others got, so that's not really a valid reason to.

As of late though, the MCH temperatures are up even more (used to be 45C to 50C, then 50C-55C, and now it's 55C, will go to ~60C load), as is almost my whole system basically (not counting the CPU, which ironically runs cooler than everything else in my system, save maybe any of the HDDs which it may be tied with), and I'm not quite sure why. The voltage is 1.39V (stock is 1.25, but it does not run stably at that even at stock frequency, it needs ~1.35V, so a .1V increase). It looks like I'll have to add that passive fan afterall, as well as putting that side door for my case with the fans back on (odd how it never raised temperatures after taking it off, but they're up now, so I wonder if it'll even help).

There you go. That's what I was getting at.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Oh no, no, I'm not saying that they are bad because they are unstable. Note the part where I said it's price/value/stability.

That's what it's all about. You can get a system like that going for years, yeah... Heck, forget years, decades. But the amount of money you need to pour into it will be much higher than if you had bought a pre-built system with similar components.

The reason?

1) Since it's a PC you built yourself, chances are you don't have warranty on the entire system as a whole. Now supposing you fried something and you still have the warranty, you still gotta pay shipping or repair fees or something like that or have to compromise something, unless you're dealing with a vendor who is completely perfect in that regard.

2) If it was a pre-built system then chances are you don't get to overclock or the overclocking support is very mediocre anyway, and if you open up the case to change components, you would void the warranty, and... either you run into the problem above, or you meet a company who is lenient enough to let it go and repair the computer for you anyway, but again, with a fee applied.

3) Supposing you made it this far without a single hiccup/error/fault/BSOD/break/whatever... then look back at the cost of the components that you had to add to keep it that way. Or if you're still using stock fans and stock components and it's rock-solid so far, you're probably one of the luckiest ones.

4) So you have a perfectly working overclocked system that does not require you to add anything exotic and falls into the perfect line, it doesn't mean that other people do, too. I mean... consider this: you yourself are thinking of adding another fan. It's that mentality that drives up the price of the system as a whole. Even if you do get a bit of performance out of the system, it'll just be about the same performance/price ratio as a pre-built system. Most often higher since you have to pay full price for softwares, unless you're toting Linux or something then... what was the point of running a Core 2 Quad on a Linux system in the first place if you're not a scientist working on a missile trajectory calculating program? Or assuming you did get it down to way below the price of a pre-built system using... "other means" such as promotions or cash backs or whatever, then again, I have to remind you that not everybody has it.

5) Reciting something again: just because you don't have issues doesn't mean other people don't have it. Just because a group of... say... 1 millions don't have it doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't. We don't have exact statistics, but what I do know is that you have more people complaining on forums about overclocking problems, RMA problems, and etc... than people announcing they got their perfect overclocking machine of dream.

And again, it's not just about the CPU, the RAM, your motherboard, or the stability of the system as a whole, it's about how much you have to pay, what you are getting out of it, and how long you can keep it going. That was what I meant. But I think you, and many others who are in the same class as you, looking for a system as high as one can afford, will just be upgrading before your system wears out anyway, so a stability test wouldn't be applicable. And then your old components will cover a portion of the cost for the new system, then you can go on with thinking that you got the faster and later and possibly better components of the generation until 2 or 3 more years coming. And that's just another thing. :innocent: You do get higher performance, but you pay more. Not that you'd notice it since you can make much more money in 2 or 3 years time.

Nowadays people don't buy a computer and be done with it anymore... Unlike back in the days, you buy a computer and you run it that way until your age has changed its tenth digit.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Up for the task of elaborating on that, without going wrong?

Mind explaining why you need a Core 2 Quad in a Linux computer for casual usage? Has Linux got that bloated already?

So what you're saying is, prebuilt PCs are more about being no frills and needing less direct involvement from the end user, and most non-enthusaists don't put as much money into OEMs as enthusiasts put into custom built PCs? That's kind of stating the obvious.

But isn't that the truth now? You did admit it's "obvious", right?

You seem to be painting them as more of a "waste" per se, and that I don't fully agree with. Everyone has hobbies where they put more money into something than someone else who just wants enough to get by. If it wasn't PCs, it'd be something else.

Ah, no, that's not what I meant. I'm just painting them as exactly what they are to anybody and not exactly to enthusiasts.

If you ask me personally as an enthusiast, I'd always say that the performance and stability of a "properly" overclocked platform is well worth every penny spent, and every drop of sweat shed. But... like you said, that's my hobby. I have to admit it when people around me who are less knowledgeable say that I'm wasting too much money... That's just reality. Like... do you think someone collecting stamps is wasting his time? That's what it is. You can brag about having the best computer in the world that has like... quad-SLI and a 8-core i7 running at 5GHz with RAM enough to make a ram drive and store 10 years worth of pr0n... but when asked what the system is for, what are you going to say?

Also, as for point number two, so far as I know, most (maybe all) OEMs won't void your warranty if you simply open the case, or replace or add parts. They won't cover the part you added obviously (it's own warranty will), or any possible damage done by you in the process (if they find out, which is the key part), but most are pretty lenient in that regard.

Well, the "know" part is the problem. It's just like the thing with Microsoft and the 360. Sometimes they charge, sometimes they don't. I think it's more of a lottery... like if your PC gets sent to a repair center where the staff is lenient then they'll do it. Otherwise you get your @$$ charged the hell out of (down to every ridiculous service fee imaginable). I've got mixed reports, but most are negative... and that's why guys who open computer repair shops still make a living these days. If warranties were covered perfectly without fees anywhere for most OEMs all over the world then private repair shops would be dead. You really should cruise around San Jose and Santa Clara sometimes.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Not _need_, and not quad-core specifically.

But The same reason for having a new and powerful rig in any os?
They way you went a little wrong was implying that you cannot do the same things in linux than you can i windows (like the old games-debate for instance).

It is actually even more interesting to have new hardware in linux since it is a more modern and much more updated os than windows for instance, especially when you use one of the more "bleeding edge" distributions.

I can even run DX10 games in my linux

But anyways, the way you phrased, limiting linux to some obscure science-prject-thing, is just far from the truth, that is all.

You "can" run games in Linux, and even DX10 games, yeah. But what's keeping you from buying a Windows copy?

The weird thing is... you can spend thousands on your computer but not $100 on a new Windows license.

That's point one.

Point two: Linux can do lots of things. True. But when it comes to expensive components running Linux (like Xeon servers and stuffs), it's mostly for scientific and business stuffs... Unless you're totally broke after buying all of your other PC components and cannot afford a copy of Windows. This is just repeating point one from a different angle... but again... free softwares for the most powerful computer you can possibly afford just doesn't sound right. Unless you're putting it to entertainment purposes... then that's a different reason altogether, and please do mind that the majority of computers in the world (Mac and PC included along with other kinds) are for business and other purposes than entertainment... mainly.

Point three: does Linux run ALL DirectX 10 games PERFECTLY the way they should run on Windows? And I'm not going to mention DirectX 11. And games should be the least on my list though it's one of the reasons. The problem is that under Linux, no matter how good the distribution, it would be very troublesome if drivers don't keep up. You can modify the drivers yourself but that's getting a bit too advanced, beyond the "bleeding edge" and into the "pioneer" level. Same goes for softwares though again, you can add support for something yourself. Same thing holds for Windows but you do not have to worry about adding the support yourself. People do it for you. Linux softwares are more frequently updated, but the quality might not be able to keep up with some softwares on PCs which only have occasional large updates instead of small updates that may potentially break other stuffs. I don't wanna go in-depth about the new kernels of Ubuntu... :innocent: but trust me... they ain't been great.

Last point: how many "casual" users in the world do you think... is using a "bleeding edge" distribution of Linux? :innocent:

 

[runawayprisoner]

But in truth that was not the comment you made for starters which is what i opposed, which was about linux being sort of pointless for other than scientific projects and the likes.

And that is the sole point i meant to explain wrong

what was the point of running a Core 2 Quad on a Linux system in the first place if you're not a scientist working on a missile trajectory calculating program?

:lol: I'll give you a few months to "decode" that message that I wrote...

The rest of the stuffs, I won't elaborate as it seems like all you want is just something "flashier" than Windows 7. I also won't talk about why Windows 7 "seems slow" as... it's obvious enough that people can take their time to research. Or I'll give you a hint: Aero animations.

Edit: by the way, "trying out new things" is also classified as scientific research. But I won't go that far... since it's kind of ridiculously broad.