You won't get it to AGP4x. the Apollo 133T has stability issues at AGP 4x so all versions of Forceware disable the ability to run it at 4x.

 

I knew you'd be the one with the answer.

I was reading around, and read other people saying it had dodgy AGP4x support too. I've now found other sources to confirm what you're saying. Apparently, the chipset was among the first with 133MHz FSB support, and the reason Intel was late was due to getting the AGP frequency right at the higher FSB (VIA beat them to it, but the results were with dodgy support). Well, that's lame. It does make me happier knowing it's not an problem with my setup exclusively, rather a limitation of the chipset. I was wondering if not installing drivers could cause it, but since Windows XP picked it all on it's own, I figured that wasn't it (plus, I've only seen AGP run in PCI mode, but not as a lower AGP speed, without the chipset drivers).

Now I have two questions.

Should I also manually set the AGP mode to 2x in the BIOS? Also, could this have caused the freezes during some attempts at a DxDiag scan, or since the card is being forced to run at 2x, is that a separate problem?

Secondly, how much of a performance hit am I incurring?

 

Are you installing the VIA agp driver?

if so, i would recommend uninstalling it and using the one installed by windows. especially if its a SP2 install, the UAGP driver should've installed by default.

Secondly, how much of a performance hit am I incurring?

It shouldn't be more then 1%.

 

I installed no drivers whatsoever, since Windows XP (even from the start without any service packs whatsoever since that's what the disc is) installed everything on it's own, which greatly surprised me.

Is it truly that small a difference? I know back then when the GeForce 256 and GeForce 2 was the top end that it may have been a small difference, but I'd think it's be something bigger these days, no? I know not getting the AGP8x this card has is moot, since that added nothing over AGP4x in it's day, and even today, the GeForce4 is probably too slow to need AGP8x bandwidth, but AGP2x seems like it would hurt.

 

only if a game uses agp texturing heavily. most don't.

 

you are also using a very old version of Everest.

 

Yes, and what an unrelated notice that was. All of the hardware in question is older than 2006, and the only purpose Everest served was to show the AGP running at 2x and not 4x, which it served, despite being a "very old version".

 

Tried the newer drivers?
VIA Drivers Download - VIA Technologies, Inc.

 

I'm about to, because I'm not sure if this is the cause, but the Sims 2 runs terribly! I ran the same game on the same PC minus a lesser CPU (800MHz Coppermine vs 1400MHz Tualatin) and half the RAM (512MB vs 1024MB). It ran fine on the lesser specifications, so what's the deal? With the same GPU (GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB w/AGP8x), the settings default to the lowest for everything. If I manually set the visuals to the highest, I watch as the textures get worse! Some sense that makes. So how can a faster PC run it worse? This is a clean install with Windows XP with little else on it, and has just been defragmented. Either the latest nVidia drivers are poor for this GPU, or the AGP being at 2x is doing some funky stuff.

 

Sims 2 just runs terribly

 

Maybe, but the issues weren't present before. However, I just realized I'm using Sims 2 Double Deluxe, which is basically Sims 2 and the Nightlife expansion, which introduced alot to the engine, so that could be why. Also, visuals and performance once in the lots seem okay. Still, the loading, menus, and even neighborhood seems to stall and hiccup alot.

 

I have my TUV4X running in 4x mode/sideband addressing enabled with my Radeon 9500 Pro, it's been flawless. I haven't done much on it lately, but it did run WoW on max settings, 1920x1200, 4xAA without crashing . I'd imagine running it like that on a 128 MB card would incur heavy AGP bus usage.

There's a setting in RivaTuner for forcing AGP 4x on some VIA chipsets. It's under the Customize button in the driver settings section on the main window, System Settings button, Compatibility tab. Check the AGP tab too to see if there's anything interesting in there.

 

I was hoping you'd post, because I thought you had the same motherboard. I finally got myself a Tualatin like I wanted to toy around with.

Sideband Addressing is supported and enabled on mine too. I didn't even see the option for it in the BIOS, nor did I know it had issues with this board. I was just surprised at why it would be running at AGP4x mode until Squall-Leonhart mentioned why.

However, I found some possible solutions to try to override the force nVidia has to lower the AGP mode to 2x. Other places say the Apollo Pro 133A (the 133T is the same w/ Tualatin support) is a bit different than the original 133 and 133 Pro, and that it's AGP support was a bit better. I may try overriding it to force AGP4x, because I'm honestly wondering if this is why performance has been a bit less than I was hoping for (or maybe I'm simply overestimating the old GeForce4 Ti4200). Still, that same card ran it better on another board with a lesser CPU and less RAM, and one expansion pack worth to Sims 2 should drop it as much as it did. Either it's the AGP not running at 4x, the lower memory performance (this chipset did pretty badly at it), the drivers not being ideal for this GPU (going to drop back to ~45.43, as they're the best for this GPU if I remember right), or my expecting too much from the system. Maybe it's a bit of all of that, but perhaps I just want it to run at AGP4x if it can.

I'll give RivaTuner a try before I look up the other solutions, which I think involved registry edits.

I Wonder if I should try a GeForce 6800GS AGP on it...

P.S. Any BIOS options off hand that you think are key to stability/performance/whatever? I don't understand alot of them, and had to change one of them to even get the board to boot past the BIOS. Also, is it worth upgrading the BIOS from 1.003 to 1.005 or the Beta 1.006? I have a floppy drive, but I don't think I have any floppy disks.

 

Fastwrite and AGP master read/write disabled

 

How and why?

I see it is enabled in my screenshot and by checking Everest. I don't "think" it's caused issues, and n_w95482 said it hasn't caused any, but, I am having performance hitches (not sure if I'm expecting too much, the drivers are the ideal version, if it's truly or only in the video system, etc., etc. though), and checking DxDiag does Bluescreen with errors about it accessing the Direct3D portion sometimes. I would be willing to try with it off and see if it changes anything. I'm not sure what it does, what the issue with having it enabled on this chipset is supposed to be, or how though. The BIOS options/names on these VIA chipsets seem odd.

 

I was hoping you'd post, because I thought you had the same motherboard. I finally got myself a Tualatin like I wanted to toy around with.

Sideband Addressing is supported and enabled on mine too. I didn't even see the option for it in the BIOS, nor did I know it had issues with this board. I was just surprised at why it would be running at AGP4x mode until Squall-Leonhart mentioned why.

However, I found some possible solutions to try to override the force nVidia has to lower the AGP mode to 2x. Other places say the Apollo Pro 133A (the 133T is the same w/ Tualatin support) is a bit different than the original 133 and 133 Pro, and that it's AGP support was a bit better. I may try overriding it to force AGP4x, because I'm honestly wondering if this is why performance has been a bit less than I was hoping for (or maybe I'm simply overestimating the old GeForce4 Ti4200). Still, that same card ran it better on another board with a lesser CPU and less RAM, and one expansion pack worth to Sims 2 should drop it as much as it did. Either it's the AGP not running at 4x, the lower memory performance (this chipset did pretty badly at it), the drivers not being ideal for this GPU (going to drop back to ~45.43, as they're the best for this GPU if I remember right), or my expecting too much from the system. Maybe it's a bit of all of that, but perhaps I just want it to run at AGP4x if it can.

I'll give RivaTuner a try before I look up the other solutions, which I think involved registry edits.

I Wonder if I should try a GeForce 6800GS AGP on it...

P.S. Any BIOS options off hand that you think are key to stability/performance/whatever? I don't understand alot of them, and had to change one of them to even get the board to boot past the BIOS. Also, is it worth upgrading the BIOS from 1.003 to 1.005 or the Beta 1.006? I have a floppy drive, but I don't think I have any floppy disks.

I remember 41.09 and 43.45 driver sets working well with my 4 MX, but then again that wasn't exactly a cutting-edge card.

As for the BIOS setting causing the non-boot, that would be CPU-DRAM back-to-back transaction. It doesn't seem to like being enabled with Tualatin chips running at 133 MHz FSB. It was fine with my Tualeron and Coppermine chips though.

I'm running the 1006 Beta BIOS on my board, but I don't recall noticing any big changes between 1005 and it. Then again, it's been a while since I upgraded it.

As for the 6800GS, give it a try. I popped my old 6800GT in my CUV4X a few years back for kicks and it worked pretty well (as well as it could with a 600 MHz Coppermine EB and 128 MB RAM). Unfortunately I don't remember if it actually ran at AGP 2x or 4x.

 

How and why?

I see it is enabled in my screenshot and by checking Everest. I don't "think" it's caused issues, and n_w95482 said it hasn't caused any, but, I am having performance hitches (not sure if I'm expecting too much, the drivers are the ideal version, if it's truly or only in the video system, etc., etc. though), and checking DxDiag does Bluescreen with errors about it accessing the Direct3D portion sometimes. I would be willing to try with it off and see if it changes anything. I'm not sure what it does, what the issue with having it enabled on this chipset is supposed to be, or how though. The BIOS options/names on these VIA chipsets seem odd.

Fastwrite was never properly working in VIA chipsets and caused glitches/freezing on nvidia hardware.

AGP Master Writes improves the performance slightly but not enough for the increase in instability it usually causes,

 

Then I wonder if these hiccups and freezing/skipping in Sims 2 movies, loading, and overall is caused by this. How would I disable it? If it's in the BIOS, it's not called Fastwrites.

AGP Master Wrotes isn't in the BIOS either.