[Desred]

I would take Konami's words for it that they are really showing in-game footage, though, if it wasn't for MGS4... which had very high quality pre-renders shown prior to the game for promotional purposes. The final game lacks a lot of texture details and anti-aliasing.

I know. I trust Capcom's word in this case more. If it was just Konami.....

Also like I said before, low resultion textures, the lightning and and and.. look bad even for prerederd. Also there was still quite a damn lot of aliasing in both games, even though less noticable in the RE demo thanks to the darker background. That's why I trust the videos.

The MGS5 video on the other hand was waaaaaay to perfect from the beginning.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Actually, I definitely would never believe Capcom. Their Resident Evil Degeneration movie was rendered like that. Yes, with very low texture resolution and very low polygon count. It was more like a game than a movie.

Just to prove a point...

Facial expressions are not even as deep as those you can find in Resident Evil 5, and that is to say it lightly. A lot of RE5 cutscenes are also pre-rendered because consoles can't render a few things, but I'm sure Capcom just finds it handy to stuff everything into the engine instead of doing it themselves.

 

[Desred]

Actually, I definitely would never believe Capcom. Their Resident Evil Degeneration movie was rendered like that. Yes, with very low texture resolution and very low polygon count. It was more like a game than a movie.

Well, it wasn't THAT bad. The arms are basically hexagons like in RE: CV in revelations. Also there was lots of anti-aliasing in degeneration. Much cleaner picture.

I meant more in what they give out to the press or state officaly.

 

[runawayprisoner]

It wasn't that they stated it officially. They simply said that the cutscene shown was real-time. Not that it was being rendered using the 3DS in real time. It's called a real-time demo. That's all... Capcom staff didn't make any statement.

And apparently, there were not a lot of stuffs going on in the demo so chances are they might have pushed things further than they should have.

 

[Desred]

It wasn't that they stated it officially. They simply said that the cutscene shown was real-time. Not that it was being rendered using the 3DS in real time. It's called a real-time demo. That's all... Capcom staff didn't make any statement.

And apparently, there were not a lot of stuffs going on in the demo so chances are they might have pushed things further than they should have.

Actually they did make the statement somewhat

For one the demo was shown ON a 3DS. So if its real-time it means it was renderd by the 3DS. (Or it wouldn't be real-time, wouldn't it? Isn't that prerenderd)
also I interpreted the statement this way on how it was written.

 

[-StrikE-]

A Yes, with very low texture resolution ....

Nope texture resolution was fine in that movie, seen it in 1080p glory. The fact that some of them may have needed some more complexity or detail is another story however.

 

[ViperXtreme]

A lot of RE5 cutscenes are also pre-rendered because consoles can't render a few things

So the PS3 and X360 are using pre-rendered cutscenes? im pretty sure the PC version is using realtime 3D rendering during custcenes, heck there's even a benchmark for it that taxes the GPU and multi core CPU's, and i think i only found 1 or 2 actual pre-rendered movie files in the PC version which is the opening movie.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Actually they did make the statement somewhat

For one the demo was shown ON a 3DS. So if its real-time it means it was renderd by the 3DS. (Or it wouldn't be real-time, wouldn't it? Isn't that prerenderd)
also I interpreted the statement this way on how it was written.

If I show a Gran Turismo 5 movie on my PSP and the movie is fully interactive, does that mean the PSP is capable of rendering Gran Turismo 5 in real-time, in-game...?

Nope texture resolution was fine in that movie, seen it in 1080p glory. The fact that some of them may have needed some more complexity or detail is another story however.

If you have seen it in 1080p, then watch it again and pay attention to the debris, also a couple of walls and some other smaller things that aren't too important. It's one thing that the textures are too simple, but it's another that insignificant objects aren't too polished either.

Even Final Fantasy VII Advent Children has some very low-res textures and even low-polygon models. You just don't usually pay attention to them because the camera pans over those objects too fast, but seriously, it's not like they don't exist.

So the PS3 and X360 are using pre-rendered cutscenes? im pretty sure the PC version is using realtime 3D rendering during custcenes, heck there's even a benchmark for it that taxes the GPU and multi core CPU's, and i think i only found 1 or 2 actual pre-rendered movie files in the PC version which is the opening movie.

Pre-rendered cutscenes, not pre-rendered movies. That means some if not most of the elements in the cutscenes were already planned and optimized for displaying in that cutscene only. So say... a box does not necessarily have to be a full box in 3D space in that cutscene. It could just be a simple flat surface that is facing the view of the camera. See what I mean...?

Metal Gear Solid 4 has a lot of these. Technically, they are still cutscenes being rendered in real-time, but that doesn't mean every object in the scene is truly 3D...

Like how we used flat images of trees on the PS1 back in the years.

A really concrete example of the Resident Evil 5 engine using pre-rendered objects is... well, try to run the benchmark on an nVidia ION machine. The cutscenes will render quite okay even at 1024x768 because not a lot of objects have to be rendered, but go in-game and I dare you to be able to play the game at anything higher than 800x480 resolution.

So... until the 3DS is finalized, I think it's very hard to tell whether or not it's capable of this and that. Heck, the PSP before its specs were finalized was almost as powerful as the PS2 and could do Gran Turismo 4 with ease, but now it's barely keeping up with 4 cars with Gran Turismo 3 models downgraded because Sony locked it down to 2/3 its actual performance to save battery life...

 

[lagunareturns]

Sony locked it down to 2/3 its actual performance to save battery life...

err no... its not locked by sony in any way, its completely up to game devs on how much they want to push the psp...

 

[Desred]

If I show a Gran Turismo 5 movie on my PSP and the movie is fully interactive, does that mean the PSP is capable of rendering Gran Turismo 5 in real-time, in-game...?

Wait a second. What is real-time again?

Because I don't see any connection. I'm just damn confused here. I may just have acted and assumed wrong things concerning the matter.

Also, have you can you explain on the whole psp thing? I know that CPU, co-CPU and GPU are locked at 2/3 of their respective Mhz. But does this rather small push-up really do so much wonders? Since everything else like memory runs on full capacity.

 

[-StrikE-]

If you have seen it in 1080p, then watch it again and pay attention to the debris, also a couple of walls and some other smaller things that aren't too important. It's one thing that the textures are too simple, but it's another that insignificant objects aren't too polished either.

Even Final Fantasy VII Advent Children has some very low-res textures and even low-polygon models. You just don't usually pay attention to them because the camera pans over those objects too fast, but seriously, it's not like they don't exist.

A very few =/= the whole movie, if you go hunting you can find flaws in everything, just cause a very few textures aren't hq doesn't cancel the fact that the majority of textures are hq.

 

[runawayprisoner]

err no... its not locked by sony in any way, its completely up to game devs on how much they want to push the psp...

It's locked. Or feel free to point out to me any official PSP game or developer that can use the full 333MHz of the CPU.

Wait a second. What is real-time again?

Because I don't see any connection. I'm just damn confused here. I may just have acted and assumed wrong things concerning the matter.

Also, have you can you explain on the whole psp thing? I know that CPU, co-CPU and GPU are locked at 2/3 of their respective Mhz. But does this rather small push-up really do so much wonders? Since everything else like memory runs on full capacity.

Real Time rendering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That means that if something is "real-time", you should be able to interact with it somewhat, or influent the scene somehow. Say... you change the costume and gun of a character in the game, and if the character uses the same gun and costume in the cutscene, that's "real-time." It means not everything is pre-determined and/or pre-planned for a certain scene. As far as that goes, yes, that means most game cutscenes are not "real-time" and I don't think any developer has claimed that unless it's an interactive demo...

Yes, you can argue that the demo was rendered using the game "graphics" engine, which might be true, but it's not true to assume that it's being done in "real-time" using the whole game engine. See...? Like... physics and clothes effects weren't being done by the game engine, and so on... So the real game may not look the same as a cutscene, or a tech-demo, and it's only true to assume that something is done in "real-time" when it's being rendered fast enough for the user to interact with it. At the least, the demo had 3D, so you can say that the 3D effect could be done in "real-time," but again, that might not mean much as the 3DS likely has other hardwares dedicated only to doing 3D.

Same reason why FFXIII doesn't look anything like the "FFVII tech demo" nor why MGS4 doesn't look anything like the pre-release shots. Other system resource constraints come into play...

And regarding the PSP, this small push-up will push the whole machine up to a level that is very close to that of the PS2, and it should then be able to push more polygons, or improve fillrate, or do more miraculous stuffs. Bottom line... more speed is better...

Plus the PSP does have one 3D game: Metal Gear Acid. I don't remember if it was the first or second one, but... one of them comes with a pair of 3D glasses. Just that the idea is catching up now and it wasn't a marketing point for the PSP, but... really, not like it isn't able to do such a thing.

A very few =/= the whole movie, if you go hunting you can find flaws in everything, just cause a very few textures aren't hq doesn't cancel the fact that the majority of textures are hq.

And I didn't say that the whole movie had low-res textures, but that they exist at all in a movie is not a good thing. So it's okay for the strings that are hanging Superman on the screen to appear in a scene now and it's still passable? It's a movie! If it was a game and they have some system resource constraints, that would be much more forgiving... But... again... movie!

 

[JJXB]

RAP: i know at least 1 game that uses a mix of clockspeeds: crisis core. when paused it uses 222mhz for power saving purposes (either that or 266mhz, been a while since i tested) but ingame it uses 333mhz.
sony took out the clockspeed lockdown sometime before 4.00 i believe. they are still limited to what clockspeed/GU combinations they can use though since homebrew developers have the same limitations. that's why when you up the clockspeed on the cpu you have to also simultaneously up the GU clockspeed at the same time.

 

[lagunareturns]

RAP: i know at least 1 game that uses a mix of clockspeeds: crisis core. when paused it uses 222mhz for power saving purposes (either that or 266mhz, been a while since i tested) but ingame it uses 333mhz.
sony took out the clockspeed lockdown sometime before 4.00 i believe. they are still limited to what clockspeed/GU combinations they can use though since homebrew developers have the same limitations. that's why when you up the clockspeed on the cpu you have to also simultaneously up the GU clockspeed at the same time.

i was going to say that about crysis core, the firmware the game used included an update that have the restriction unlocked, and the other well known game that took advantage of this is god of war...

still even having the unlock available doesnt offer ground breaking graphics, it just allowed the devs to push for the extre amount of polygons or extra bit of detail...

what is shocking is my brother was mucking around with the cpu speeds while playing kingdom hearts birth by sleep and was surprised to learn the game worked until the 133 mhz mark where it showed signs of frame skipping, that is pretty astounding considering what technical feat the game is but it shows that unlocking the full speed isnt what it cracks up to be, its something more like providing the extra mhz to prevent slowdowns/frameskip in games or to allow bloom effects without lowering the polygon count

 

[JJXB]

i was going to say that about crysis core, the firmware the game used included an update that have the restriction unlocked, and the other well known game that took advantage of this is god of war...

still even having the unlock available doesnt offer ground breaking graphics, it just allowed the devs to push for the extre amount of polygons or extra bit of detail...

what is shocking is my brother was mucking around with the cpu speeds while playing kingdom hearts birth by sleep and was surprised to learn the game worked until the 133 mhz mark where it showed signs of frame skipping, that is pretty astounding considering what technical feat the game is but it shows that unlocking the full speed isnt what it cracks up to be, its something more like providing the extra mhz to prevent slowdowns/frameskip in games or to allow bloom effects without lowering the polygon count

i also tested it with some PS1 games on PSP. Castlevania symphony of the night runs fine until about 166mhz or something. just goes to show that PS1 emulation on the PSP doesn't always need full power.

 

[Matis]

If you have seen it in 1080p, then watch it again and pay attention to the debris, also a couple of walls and some other smaller things that aren't too important. It's one thing that the textures are too simple, but it's another that insignificant objects aren't too polished either.

Even Final Fantasy VII Advent Children has some very low-res textures and even low-polygon models. You just don't usually pay attention to them because the camera pans over those objects too fast, but seriously, it's not like they don't exist.

That, my friend, is called "saving cash". Actually having everything in real 1080p would probably cost quite a bit more than what they did. Most of the movie actually is done in HD. The parts that aren't simply weren't done that way to save cash. It's understandable, viable, and not that big of a fuss.

It would be another thing altogether if the center of attraction were done in low-res or had a low polygon count. But that's not the case. Can they call it true 1080p? I know I would. Is it REALLY that way? No. Just 95% of the movie is 1080p(number out of my arse, but you get the point). Does it really matter? No, it doesn't.

 

[-StrikE-]

Also you can't notice it unless your specifically are just looking for "problems" within the movie ...

 

[runawayprisoner]

Oh good, thanks for mentioning that JJXB. And I almost thought that no one would take the time to really debate it instead of going in with just "it runs at fullspeed all the time"...

So anyways, again, there IS a difference. God of War says it best...

So in terms of room, the PSP still has more to grow, or at least it is not that far behind the 3DS.

That, my friend, is called "saving cash". Actually having everything in real 1080p would probably cost quite a bit more than what they did. Most of the movie actually is done in HD. The parts that aren't simply weren't done that way to save cash. It's understandable, viable, and not that big of a fuss.

It would be another thing altogether if the center of attraction were done in low-res or had a low polygon count. But that's not the case. Can they call it true 1080p? I know I would. Is it REALLY that way? No. Just 95% of the movie is 1080p(number out of my arse, but you get the point). Does it really matter? No, it doesn't.

Um... actually, most of the models in the movie have a lower polygon count than you may expect. Here's what happened... roughly...

To those of you who may not give a damn and just want to enjoy a Resident Evil movie (which is quite frankly far better than the live action version...), it just works. But for those who are anal about technical details and want to enjoy something that was beautifully rendered, this "thing" might just lack too much... Granted, it ain't Square Enix making the next Final Fantasy game so you can't expect spectacular CG, but they (Capcom) were obviously being lazy about it...

And back on the topic... They used that kind of quickly patched together job in a whole CG movie, what are the chances they won't try to "save cash" in a cutscene of a game on a mobile platform...? So if it's okay to "save cash," we as consumers should also be okay with it?