[runawayprisoner]

PCs are over.

"We wanted to get out before it was obvious to everyone," said Mr. Palmisano. "I couldn't give it away today," said Mr. Palmisano of the PC business. H-P is the world's biggest PC maker.

Source: IBM's Chief Thumps H-P - WSJ.com

 

[ElijahTW]

PCs aren't over to anyone who does anything more than stupid flash-quality games or social networking bullcrap constantly.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Yep but now even Best Buy CEO is saying the same thing:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/ipad-has-halved-laptop-sales-claims-best-buy-ceo/

I think it's time for us to realize that this is where the market is headed, and before long (in 10 years?), we won't see many laptops or PCs anymore. Or... we may still see them, but these CEOs are indicating that they don't want to play with PCs anymore.

 

[koko]

Laptops are stupid, the same thing to iPad.

 

[Demigod]

PCs are over.

Source: IBM's Chief Thumps H-P - WSJ.com

And I'm supposed to believe something about the PC market said by IBM??? Are you serious? IBM deals almost exclusively in server and business systems, they have no idea what the PC market is like or what PC users want (just because they sucked at it doesn't mean they can dismiss it).

Laptops are stupid, the same thing to iPad.

I think the iPad is just a big toy. Having used it myself, I can say that it in no way, shape, or form fits my needs for a replacement laptop (nevermind a desktop PC). If the iPad is the future of tablets then I can safely say that PCs are here to stay.

 

[runawayprisoner]

And I'm supposed to believe something about the PC market said by IBM??? Are you serious? IBM deals almost exclusively in server and business systems, they have no idea what the PC market is like or what PC users want (just because they sucked at it doesn't mean they can dismiss it).

PC users nowadays want something that's strong, powerful, and something that they can build themselves. If you're gonna rush out for a PC from Dell or HP, why not a laptop? And if you're gonna get a laptop... [hint: read Best Buy CEO's statement]

I think the iPad is just a big toy. Having used it myself, I can say that it in no way, shape, or form fits my needs for a replacement laptop (nevermind a desktop PC). If the iPad is the future of tablets then I can safely say that PCs are here to stay.

That's what you think though. I think the sale of the iPad dictates otherwise. If the device can't replace a full-on laptop or desktop, as you have put it, then I guess... people simply don't need a laptop or desktop so often anymore.

See, these kinds of news strike me as a statement that the new era of computing is coming, and the new form is going to be dictated by the majority. And I don't think the majority of PC users, laptop or desktop, are enthusiasts who care about every ounce of MHz or every single transistor in a chip.

Personally, I was hoping for a 5GHz Intel Core i7 this generation, and was very disappointed when it turned out i7 is not a significant upgrade to Core 2 in terms of performance. It's an upgrade alright, just not a significant one.

This is just like Wii vs the world all over again... with the iPad being the Wii and the world being... us. :innocent: Honestly, I still can't agree that the Wii is a next-generation console, just like I can't agree that the iPad can fully replace my desktop computer or laptop, as you said... (don't worry, you're not alone) But... fact is fact. The damn thing is successful, and if anything at all, it's going to set a sale record bar that is going to be trailed by everyone else for the next few years. Look at the Wii, then look at where the PS3 and 360 are at right now.

Plus the majority of PC users already have a laptop or desktop, or both. This generation is just... you know, stagnant. It's the same hardware, and... with a higher price tag. Should they upgrade, or should they get a brand-new device with the upgrade budget instead?

 

[-StrikE-]

Laptops are stupid, the same thing to iPad.

No they aren't, they are convenient and depending on the job you have quite a life saver.

 

[gamefreak94]

IMO tablets are innovative new devices, but comparing them to an actualy computer system like a laptop or a PC is just ludicrous.

@koko: Laptops are just like PCs, usually not as powerful or durable (throwing money at it solves this problem though). Whatever you can do on your PC you can do just as well on your laptop too, besides the obvious power efficiency and portability.

 

[Demigod]

PC users nowadays want something that's strong, powerful, and something that they can build themselves. If you're gonna rush out for a PC from Dell or HP, why not a laptop? And if you're gonna get a laptop... [hint: read Best Buy CEO's statement]

Laptops are not as powerful or flexible as desktops and neither are they cost-effective as they generally cost more and their upgradability is limited. Their main attraction is portability (in that sense tablets are good competition). If laptops were good replacements for desktops then they would have replaced desktops a long time ago.

This is just like Wii vs the world all over again... with the iPad being the Wii and the world being... us. :innocent: Honestly, I still can't agree that the Wii is a next-generation console, just like I can't agree that the iPad can fully replace my desktop computer or laptop, as you said... (don't worry, you're not alone) But... fact is fact. The damn thing is successful, and if anything at all, it's going to set a sale record bar that is going to be trailed by everyone else for the next few years. Look at the Wii, then look at where the PS3 and 360 are at right now.

I don't doubt that the iPad is successful. Afterall, it's a cool new toy and we love our cool new toys, whether we need them or not (I actually thought about buying an iPad the moment it came out, but then decided I didn't need another toy). I'm just saying it's too premature to declare the PC dead because we got a new toy. Tablets will find their place, just like all other pieces of technology (personally I think they'll a good replacement for netbooks and some of the lighter notebooks).

(BTW, IBM seems to be in a kind of war with HP at the moment (they're even teaming up with Oracle to fight against a common enemy) so such comments should be taken in that light)

 

[runawayprisoner]

Well, I think it's quite the opposite here. The Chief of IBM may not imply that PCs are dead, but that the pre-made PC market may well be over. Which has some truth to it considering PC enthusiasts would just go out and buy separate components then assemble their own instead.

 

[gamefreak94]

So basically you're implying this:

I can foresee a 'PCs are only for geeks' future though, where just having a PC would make people you're some kind of shut-in with depression who spends all his time online or a video game geek

 

[-StrikE-]

If that's what his implying his wrong many of the cool/bad ass/gangsta/mob people have PC's at least here (and they have limited knowledge about them but still use them even for things like gaming), its kind of hard to imagine it would be drastically different in the rest of the world... and that it will change, this is just another one of those over exaggerated claims that should be ignored like the one that PC gaming is dying.

 

[runawayprisoner]

So basically you're implying this:

Not at all. I'm implying the possibility that people already got their laptops and desktops and won't want to upgrade to a newer model in any foreseeable future. When truly worthwhile PC upgrades are available, then these tablet devices may have grown from being simply a toy to something else completely, and it'll be a totally different story then. Perhaps having a PC in the future may be akin to having an Amiga in this day and age. You'll like a vintage collector, so to say.

Stuffs evolve. Whether you like the path of evolution or not. Emo and vampire is the new fashion. It's just the inevitable path of the world... When the majority wants something, you either have to want the same thing, or you'll be an outcast.

Just like... our use of the English language is not acceptable back a couple of centuries... since English was dirty/unclean.

 

[Demigod]

Not at all. I'm implying the possibility that people already got their laptops and desktops and won't want to upgrade to a newer model in any foreseeable future.

And what makes you think that this is a possibility? What makes you think that people will suddenly stop buying new computers or upgrading their existing ones? It's not like software development has stopped or reached a plateau; in fact there is every indication that more demanding software will arrive in the near future (especially OS and games).

When truly worthwhile PC upgrades are available, then these tablet devices may have grown from being simply a toy to something else completely, and it'll be a totally different story then.

But if a truly worthwhile upgrade arrives for the PC then why would people suddenly switch to tablets?

"Hey, Intel just released a snazzy hundred-core 10 Ghz processor! Is it worth upgrading? Absolutely! So let's buy an iPad!"oO

Even if tablets reach a point of equality with laptops in terms of power and functionality they still won't replace desktops (again, if that was the case then laptops would have long ago replaced desktops).

When the majority wants something, you either have to want the same thing, or you'll be an outcast.

And yet there is no indication that the majority is abandoning their PCs for tablets. The only indication we have is that the iPad is a cool new toy. Just because a tablet can do some of the stuff that a PC can does not mean that PCs have become obsolete. You're reading way too much into this.

 

[runawayprisoner]

And what makes you think that this is a possibility? What makes you think that people will suddenly stop buying new computers or upgrading their existing ones? It's not like software development has stopped or reached a plateau; in fact there is every indication that more demanding software will arrive in the near future (especially OS and games).

Well, people will upgrade their current computers. That's for sure. Will they buy new computers...? Hmm... that one, I'm not so sure of. If you can give me one reason why I should buy an HP desktop computer set over one of their other laptops, I'll re-evaluate my assessment.

But if a truly worthwhile upgrade arrives for the PC then why would people suddenly switch to tablets?

Well, they wouldn't. See, the problem is not with the upgradability of current PCs. I'm talking about whether new PC owners will see a point in getting a brand new PC that is just as troublesome as their older one, or they'd rather get an iPad or laptop instead. It's more portable and it takes up less space after all. And to the average consumer, as long as they can surf the web, read emails, chat on Facebook and do some documents and spreadsheets, it's not like it matters. Upgrades only concern power users who want to do games, or professional works. :innocent:

Heck, in my profession, even a netbook would work... as I need portability and versatility more than a monster of a computer. But... case in point: I'm not seeing any reason to upgrade my Xeon X3370 setup to one of the Core i7 systems... and... that's beside the point. I'm pondering the validity of IBM's statement, which specifically states that pre-made PC sales are dying, not that PCs are dying. If the wording was confusing, pardon the use of them.

Even if tablets reach a point of equality with laptops in terms of power and functionality they still won't replace desktops (again, if that was the case then laptops would have long ago replaced desktops).

Well, obviously, they wouldn't replace desktops, completely. They only cut into desktop sales. Laptops also didn't replace desktops, but I think laptops are also cutting into PC sales. As people want to move away from their desks and onto sofas, couches, and coffee shops (Starbucks!), the need for a mobile device would grow. Desktops are not being replaced, nor are they dead, but you can't quite say they get quite the love these days.

In case we haven't caught up with the news lately:

AMD?

AMD No Immediate Plans to Enter Tablet Market

Oh good, here's one that won't buy into the hype.

Intel?

Intel Wireless Display demoed on a tablet | RCR Unplugged

Intel Atom to go as small as 15nm | Electronista

Intel testing context-aware API for smartphones and tablet PCs, teams with Fodor on dynamic travel app -- Engadget

Intel Opens Software App Store, Offers New Intel Atom Chips

Intel shows off WiDi-enabled Atom tablet at IDF 2010 -- Engadget

Holy ****... Wait, really? Yes... So Intel totally bought into it. How's Sandy Bridge, though?

Intel: Sandy Bridge CPUs will ship in early 2011 (update) -- Engadget

Good, looks like we still get some desktop love. Wait... 1 article? Yeah... Intel is releasing some dozens of different Atom chips capable of different things for different mobile and specific-purpose systems, whereas the next update to the Core line of CPU is going to come somewhere in the beginning of 2011. Hmm... can you say... we're not getting as much love?

And yet there is no indication that the majority is abandoning their PCs for tablets. The only indication we have is that the iPad is a cool new toy. Just because a tablet can do some of the stuff that a PC can does not mean that PCs have become obsolete. You're reading way too much into this.

No, of course, the majority is not. Not even the minority. The problem is the manufacturers... See, like I just showed you. Intel is shifting its focus. AMD is not playing into the hype, so we can still see something... But really, when IDF is all about netbooks and tablets, something is wrong... horribly wrong.

Tablets may not replace desktops anytime soon in our minds and hearts (honestly, I work and game mainly on my desktop), but Intel? They have plans...

 

[StriderVM]

The day the PC desktop dies is the day server computers are on a laptop. And it is the day that Lamborghini and other exotic sports car makers will also die.

I don't think that it is in the immediate future....

 

[Demigod]

Well, people will upgrade their current computers. That's for sure. Will they buy new computers...? Hmm... that one, I'm not so sure of. If you can give me one reason why I should buy an HP desktop computer set over one of their other laptops, I'll re-evaluate my assessment.

A desktop system is far cheaper than a comparable laptop (not to mention that it can be cheaply upgraded). Unless you absolutely need the portability it's a waste of money to get a laptop over a desktop. There's also a lot more variety when it comes to desktops as they can configured in just about every way imaginable. The options on a laptop are extremely limited by comparison (you don't like the screen or keyboard on an otherwise good model? Too bad!).

Well, they wouldn't. See, the problem is not with the upgradability of current PCs. I'm talking about whether new PC owners will see a point in getting a brand new PC that is just as troublesome as their older one, or they'd rather get an iPad or laptop instead. It's more portable and it takes up less space after all. And to the average consumer, as long as they can surf the web, read emails, chat on Facebook and do some documents and spreadsheets, it's not like it matters. Upgrades only concern power users who want to do games, or professional works. :innocent:

If all one needs is to surf the web, read e-mails, and chat on Facebook then why not get a really cheap desktop computer? Why shell out the extra money for a laptop when you don't need the portability? As for me, I don't find my desktop system troublesome at all and prefer using it over my laptop (if I were to get a brand new system then there's no question what I'd get). Whether it's browsing the web, gaming, or chatting (BTW, I absolutely HATE typing on an on-screen keyboard) my desktop system is my preferred machine.

In case we haven't caught up with the news lately:

AMD?

AMD No Immediate Plans to Enter Tablet Market

Oh good, here's one that won't buy into the hype.

Intel?

Intel Wireless Display demoed on a tablet | RCR Unplugged

Intel Atom to go as small as 15nm | Electronista

Intel testing context-aware API for smartphones and tablet PCs, teams with Fodor on dynamic travel app -- Engadget

Intel Opens Software App Store, Offers New Intel Atom Chips

Intel shows off WiDi-enabled Atom tablet at IDF 2010 -- Engadget

Holy ****... Wait, really? Yes... So Intel totally bought into it. How's Sandy Bridge, though?

Intel: Sandy Bridge CPUs will ship in early 2011 (update) -- Engadget

Good, looks like we still get some desktop love. Wait... 1 article? Yeah... Intel is releasing some dozens of different Atom chips capable of different things for different mobile and specific-purpose systems, whereas the next update to the Core line of CPU is going to come somewhere in the beginning of 2011. Hmm... can you say... we're not getting as much love?

No, of course, the majority is not. Not even the minority. The problem is the manufacturers... See, like I just showed you. Intel is shifting its focus. AMD is not playing into the hype, so we can still see something... But really, when IDF is all about netbooks and tablets, something is wrong... horribly wrong.

Tablets may not replace desktops anytime soon in our minds and hearts (honestly, I work and game mainly on my desktop), but Intel? They have plans...

There is no indication whatsoever that Intel plans to move away from their core desktop CPUs. Intel creates products for many different sectors of the tech industry so I don't find it surprising that they'd also be interested in the emerging tablet sector (it's kind of like an extension of their mobile products). Again, you're reading way, way too much into it.

Also, I don't know what news source you've been using but I've found more articles on Sandy Bridge on google news than on the Atom (search 'Intel IDF Sandy Bridge' for all the articles). Sandy Bridge was showcased on day one at IDF and it's what tech guys like me are most interested in (almost makes me want to buy more Intel stock). All the articles on IDF states that Sandy Bridge was the dominant news item on the first day, suggesting the continuing importance of their key flagship desktop product. The Atom was showcased mostly on day two (maybe you missed the events of the first day?).

 

[Proto]

I think it would be more useful to track % of news changes rather than absolute proportions for that to be of any significance, given that the thread opener was talking about a tendency change rather than an already palpable reality.

 

[runawayprisoner]

A desktop system is far cheaper than a comparable laptop (not to mention that it can be cheaply upgraded). Unless you absolutely need the portability it's a waste of money to get a laptop over a desktop. There's also a lot more variety when it comes to desktops as they can configured in just about every way imaginable. The options on a laptop are extremely limited by comparison (you don't like the screen or keyboard on an otherwise good model? Too bad!).

Well, yeah, economical issues. But like I mentioned... pre-made PCs. Again, not the kind that you'd build yourself from parts you got from Newegg or TigerDirect or mWave... or eBay. Just a desktop computer you buy from, say... Best Buy. I realize there are varieties in building a desktop yourself, but... to the end-consumer who knows only how to buy what is there and has absolutely no clue how to get an upgrade or do an upgrade, I don't think the upgradability of a desktop matters much. Like, say, if I'm about to buy my granny a new computer, does it matter if it's a desktop or laptop as long as it's useful to her?

If all one needs is to surf the web, read e-mails, and chat on Facebook then why not get a really cheap desktop computer? Why shell out the extra money for a laptop when you don't need the portability?

Indeed. That's why laptops didn't overtake desktops. But now, how would something like, say, an iPad, be better?

Simple, instead of saying "granny, navigate your mouse like this to the corner of the screen, there, then you click the mouse button here, and it'll pop up a menu for you. Then you find the application you need from the list, and you click on it. Simple, isn't it?"

On an iPad, it's just this: "Granny, just touch the icon you want to launch."

Big difference there. :innocent:

As for me, I don't find my desktop system troublesome at all and prefer using it over my laptop (if I were to get a brand new system then there's no question what I'd get). Whether it's browsing the web, gaming, or chatting (BTW, I absolutely HATE typing on an on-screen keyboard) my desktop system is my preferred machine.

Think your granny. Think about someone who is not too good at computer like us crazy enthusiasts. Think of some caveman from the stone age who has never touched technology for years. Will you guide them through the process of wielding a mouse, or will you tell them to touch the icon they want to launch? The keyboard is a non-issue as you can just connect a USB keyboard or a bluetooth keyboard when you absolutely dread the on-screen one.

Since I've met many people who can't navigate on a computer to save their lives, not even mentioning going to the control panel to look for things, I honestly think... a dumb device that is as literal as WYSWYG would help them. Personally, I would use a desktop for work, and a laptop when I'm away from my house, but... that's just me. If it wasn't, then the millions of iPads sold is a pretty stupid decision based on how you put it.

There is no indication whatsoever that Intel plans to move away from their core desktop CPUs. Intel creates products for many different sectors of the tech industry so I don't find it surprising that they'd also be interested in the emerging tablet sector (it's kind of like an extension of their mobile products). Again, you're reading way, way too much into it.

Of course there is no indication. Intel has thrived on for years thanks to being an active player in desktop chips and server chips. It's their foundation. They just can't slack off there since it's their business model. But you can't quite say they are paying that much attention to their desktop parts anymore. Seen that $50 upgrade option for the new Intel chip? It's really caring for your customers there.

Also, I don't know what news source you've been using but I've found more articles on Sandy Bridge on google news than on the Atom (search 'Intel IDF Sandy Bridge' for all the articles). Sandy Bridge was showcased on day one at IDF and it's what tech guys like me are most interested in (almost makes me want to buy more Intel stock). All the articles on IDF states that Sandy Bridge was the dominant news item on the first day, suggesting the continuing importance of their key flagship desktop product. The Atom was showcased mostly on day two (maybe you missed the events of the first day?).

Yeah, showcased on day one and overclocked to 4.9GHz. Wait, that one didn't show up when I typed in the search query you gave, but anyways, here it is:

IDF Intel 2010: Intel overclocks Sandy Bridge CPU to 4.9GHz, outpaces 12-core AMD Opteron | ZDNet

But we need... actual different news. Like Proto said, % of news changes, not the same story over and over again. The news stories you get for Sandy Bridge are pretty much just those that I posted. Not enough press coverage? I think Intel barely had anything to show...

And one other missing-in-action comrade: USB 3.0. Where did that guy go? You'd think Intel would say a new thing or two about it if they were to introduce or showcase Sandy Bridge, but nope.

AT IDF, Where in the World Was USB 3.0? | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

So yes, it's actually all about netbooks and tablets this year. Intel covered Atom and the technologies that are going alongside with the new chipsets pretty extensively. Considering they even went as far as partnering up with Nokia to write a whole new OS (Meego) for mobile devices, I think it's clear where they are headed.

Again, I'm not talking about something that indicates that Intel will completely abandon desktop, but that the current trend is that Intel doesn't really have much for the desktop space other than a promised 2011 Q1 release for Sandy Bridge. As far as which chips will be released, which frequencies, pricing, etc, we are still looking at a 6-month window until then...

Trust me, I'm excited about Sandy Bridge, too, and I follow news quite closely. But... there's just nothing there to follow. 4.9GHz is a nice figure, on air, no less, but... what else? Which chip is that? What's its default frequency? Will all chips be able to overclock like it? Price?

Aside from Sandy Bridge, there's Ivy Bridge too if you didn't catch up.

Intel: 22nm Microprocessors Are Already in Production - X-bit labs

So yeah, Ivy Bridge right after Sandy Bridge launch or so. Supposedly more waiting game... and nothing to show but tablets and netbooks meanwhile. Good going...

At least if the performance is as high as they claim, it'll be a joy ride for next-gen emulators. We really need some faster CPUs.

 

[Demigod]

Well, yeah, economical issues. But like I mentioned... pre-made PCs. Again, not the kind that you'd build yourself from parts you got from Newegg or TigerDirect or mWave... or eBay. Just a desktop computer you buy from, say... Best Buy.

It's not even building the system yourself, a lot of shops allow you to choose the parts and have them build it for you (kind of like how I do with friends). That's how I got my first really good PC; I listed the parts I wanted and they made it for me. Again, not really a choice with laptops.

Indeed. That's why laptops didn't overtake desktops. But now, how would something like, say, an iPad, be better?

Simple, instead of saying "granny, navigate your mouse like this to the corner of the screen, there, then you click the mouse button here, and it'll pop up a menu for you. Then you find the application you need from the list, and you click on it. Simple, isn't it?"

On an iPad, it's just this: "Granny, just touch the icon you want to launch."

Big difference there. :innocent:

There are icons on the desktop as well. At any rate, I would think most people would be at least literate enough to open up web pages, compose e-mail, and run apps. I know this differs based on the user (my dad is helpless on a computer while my uncle is a super-user). Of course my generation and younger pretty much know how to do everything (in that regard I don't see the future of computing as a bunch of noobs who can't tell a computer mouse from something that squeaks).

But we need... actual different news. Like Proto said, % of news changes, not the same story over and over again. The news stories you get for Sandy Bridge are pretty much just those that I posted. Not enough press coverage? I think Intel barely had anything to show...

I think the sheer amount of coverage says quite a lot. A million reporters reporting on the same thing would indicate an intense interest in that item don't you think? There was a lot of hype and hope around Sandy Bridge (and Ivy Bridge - yes, I know about it) so naturally it would be a big news item at IDF and it was.

So yeah, Ivy Bridge right after Sandy Bridge launch or so. Supposedly more waiting game... and nothing to show but tablets and netbooks meanwhile. Good going...

Intel is expanding aggressively into the handheld market. They're trying to revive their flagging Atom chip and trying to reach into new mobile markets (it's not just tablets, but handhelds and other integrated devices as well). This seems to be a natural strategy for Intel, especially considering how companies like Nvidia are also pushing aggressively into the handheld industry (Nvidia recently won a contract with LG for their Tegra 2 - showing that the Tegra family actually does have a future). This is typical Intel, showing off their prime flagship desktop/notebook product first thing, and then other technologies they have going.