Transhumanism is entering the mainstream

JanusX · Aug 13, 2004

Transhumanism all the way

Thanks for the articles.

Unicron · Aug 13, 2004

エッリー said:
Improving human's life maybe.....
But clinging to a mortal life which will be soon fade away,...I'd rather die with honor than cling to my life like a kid clinging to his toys and refusing to grow up. Move on...
( oh wait, my morals are outdated and crap, they know better....:???: )

Yours,
-Elly

as I know that every man's beliefs are his own I meant that religion has lost most of it's meaning to me sorry if I offended. And Ill edit my other post to say "IMO..."

upwardexhalebwn · Aug 13, 2004

I have hallucinations of transhumanism .

Unicron · Aug 13, 2004

ahhh, you my friend could use a beer as well...you are thinking too much

Boltzmann · Aug 13, 2004

エッリー said:
Improving human's life maybe.....
But clinging to a mortal life which will be soon fade away,...I'd rather die with honor than cling to my life like a kid clinging to his toys and refusing to grow up. Move on...
( oh wait, my morals are outdated and crap, they know better....:???: )

1. Transhumanists do not cling to their lifes like kids. They want to extend their healthy lifespan, and be as strong in their old as in their youth.
1.1. If you disagree that the human healthy lifespan should be increased, we should give up on modern medicine, and all other attempts to prolong our life.

2. Since most transhumanists do not believe in life after death, it's only logical that they seek to improve the only life that we have - which is the one that we have here on Earth. IMO, it's ludicrous to think that another kind of existence awaits us when we die.
2.1. Now, if you really believe in life after death, then you probably think that transhumanists are idiots for wanting to prolong their lifes here on Earth. Well, I can only say that you're entitled to your own opinions

upwardexhalebwn said:
I have hallucinations of transhumanism .

:spam: ?

_E_ · Aug 13, 2004

Boltzmann said:
1. Transhumanists do not cling to their lifes like kids. They want to extend their healthy lifespan, and be as strong in their old as in their youth.
1.1. If you disagree that the human healthy lifespan should be increased, we should give up on modern medicine, and all other attempts to prolong our life.

a) i) Extending life is basically clinging to life. Why would someone want to extend their life? They basically live in pleasure and want to enjoy themselves more.

ii) Modern medicine == extended lifespan ? Medicine provides cures for existing diseases ( mentally and physically), but it doesn't extend your life.

I am going to use an analogy to illustrate my point :

You buy a car in 1970 and keep using it till 1990. Now, if you keep taking care of its body/mechanical parts, the car will serve you more ( but it doesn't neccessary extends its usage period, it makes it Live to that period). On the other hand, if you were careless and didn't care to replace it parts and maintain it, the car will die way before its theoratical time is up. Eventually, there will be a time when you can no longer use that car, so off to the junkyard it goes.

Similarily, our bodies are the same. We keep using them up till our time comes. If we take care of our bodies, we aren't going to live more than we should, but we are going to have less diseases, and live up to 80% ( for example ) of our theoratical life rather than 50% of our life when we get careless. ( The mean human age rate nowadays is, I dunno,.....around 60-70 years old? ).

If your aim is to live up to that age with a healthy body, then that's when medicine comes in

If you want to live MORE than what you should, and attempt to have a stronger mentality/physical body, then thats where Transhumanism comes in.

Both are two different subjects.

More importantly, with such resources, we can fund more researchs ( such as cancer researchs) and improve the degrading life standards in the 3rd world. Why shall we live for our pleasure when people are suffering around us? Or do they not have the right to live like we do?

Boltzmann said:
2. Since most transhumanists do not believe in life after death, it's only logical that they seek to improve the only life that we have - which is the one that we have here on Earth. IMO, it's ludicrous to think that another kind of existence awaits us when we die.

Then cling to that mortal life of yours as much as you want ; keep living, no one is stopping you. But if what you say about most transhumanists is true, then we might as well label Transhumanism as the new atheism move

Then again, we even disagree in morals so lets leave it at that. IMO, it ludicrous to think that another kind of existence doesn't await us when we die.

Boltzmann said:
2.1. Now, if you really believe in life after death, then you probably think that transhumanists are idiots for wanting to prolong their lifes here on Earth. Well, I can only say that you're entitled to your own opinions

I don't care what ya all do, so why should I label you as "idiots" ?

As long sa you aren't pushing your ideas on other people then I have no qualms, its your opinion and you are entitled to it.

But when you say that "We have to change today's standards and/or morals" then you know that me and many others will strongly disagree, and with such attitude, you won't change people opinions/believe easily I am afraid.

Right, I am outta here

Yours,
-Elly

Boltzmann · Aug 13, 2004

エッリー said:
ii) Modern medicine == extended lifespan ? Medicine provides cures for existing diseases ( mentally and physically), but it doesn't extend your life.

I disagree with your whole point about medicine. What we call a "normal" lifespan today is very different from what people in the 19th century called normal.

Tell me, what's the real difference between fighting diseases and fighting the causes of aging (which cause diseases in the first place)?

エッリー said:
Then cling to that mortal life of yours as much as you want ; keep living, no one is stopping you. But if what you say about most transhumanists is true, then we might as well label Transhumanism as the new atheism move

If you'd read carefully what I wrote, you would see that most transhumanists are in fact atheists (85% of them, according to the last survey in the World Transhumanist Association. Most of the theist ones were pagans, though).

But transhumanism itself is not an atheist movement. There's no emphasis on atheism, and there's no special urge against religion (except when the religious right wants to ban the technologies that we promote).

エッリー said:
But when you say that "We have to change today's standards and/or morals" then you know that me and many others will strongly disagree, and with such attitude, you won't change people opinions/believe easily I am afraid.

I say that we should change today's standards and become more tolerant of other people's choices. Respect their right to enhance themselves, to choose the sex of their children... It's all about freedom, and respect.

Now, if you say that hatred and prejudice are good things for the world, who am I to say otherwise? :lol:

GALVATRON · Aug 13, 2004

um... I don't understand why "transhumanism" requires such a dramatic title or an active movement when it seems that most of this stuff will be a self-evident consequence of medical, social, and technological progress.

Why don't they just call it "scientific progress" or "artificial evolution" or "Teh Future"? oO

You should have told me the meeting was here in Toronto, I would have checked it out. :\

Boltzmann · Aug 13, 2004

GALVATRON said:
um... I don't understand why "transhumanism" requires such a dramatic title or an active movement when it seems that most of this stuff will be a self-evident consequence of medical, social, and technological progress.

Why don't they just call it "scientific progress" or "artificial evolution" or "Teh Future"? oO

You should have told me the meeting was here in Toronto, I would have checked it out. :\

It's a human tendency

As I've said before, the main point is technology advocacy, and for this you don't really need this fancy title - but it helps

And we really need an organization that defends technology advocacy interests at a global scale. Because the bioconservatives themselves are highly organized (see Leon Kass for the classical bioconservative, techno-luddite).

BTW, if not for troubles at work, I would have gone myself. It would be nice to visit Canada, and from what I've read TransVision 2004 was amazing

zcal · Aug 14, 2004

Interesting. Transhumanism's ideas seem a bit radical to me, but not entirely impossible. The movement seems to be drawing from distinct aspects of other philosophies/ways of thought. The idea of religious tolerance mixed with notions of playing God brings to my mind an image of radical Buddhism in which current ideas of science fiction will be used to better ourselves and attain a perfection that Buddhists look for spiritually. I like it. :thumb: I may not totally agree with it, but it's quite progressive, so much so that I'm sure transhumanists would be tolerant of my own views.

That's more than I can say of the religious right or the skeptic left.

Transhumanism is entering the mainstream

JanusX

Unicron

upwardexhalebwn

Unicron

Boltzmann

_E_

Boltzmann

GALVATRON

Boltzmann

zcal

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