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Which console is the best all around?

  • PS2

    Votes: 68 60%
  • GameCube

    Votes: 33 29%
  • Xbox

    Votes: 12 11%
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> 40%? I think I should compile that list shortly if people are THAT misillusioned.

Watch it Ninja... we all are talking in a civilized manner... the "misillusioned" part is out of place... and bring your list, you will fight to prove your point and I'll fight to prove mine...

> God bless the emu... the REAL preserver of classics.

I double that...
 
Discussion starter · #662 ·
I won't retract my statement about you being misillusioned because there is nothing even remotely hostile about it Kaiser. I am not going to apologize if I have done nothing wrong.

I am going to go make a list now to back up my words.
 
> I won't retract my statement about you being misillusioned because there is nothing even remotely hostile about it Kaiser. I am not going to apologize if I have done nothing wrong.
I am going to go make a list now to back up my words.

*nods head with an arrogant smile* heh, never asked for such a thing... it's just an observation, you said you didn't want a "flame war", then you should watch the words you use... you may have not tried to be "hostile", but to me, it sounded that way... I await your list, then we will discuss wheter I'm "misillusioned" or if I really have a point...
 
Discussion starter · #664 ·
...whatever... anyways,

You have no idea how happy it made me when I got to the end of this list. An entire hour of copy and paste really takes its toll on you. As a result, I have no doubt that I have double posted a few of these names, and I would be happy to remove them if someone tells me what they are.

Also, I tried to filter this list of rumored games, but I may have missed a couple.

If I have grossly miscategorized something, let me know there as well and I will fix it.

One last thing. I haven't bothered to count these games. There are just too freaking many. If someone wants to, go for it. If I had to guess, I would say that there are between 10 - 15% remakes on the GBA. Of those, maybe half are actually SNES remakes, and the rest are classics from PC or Arcade days. Anyways, I've made my point. Now can we move on to next generation console discussion?

-=REMAKES=-
Phantasy Star Collection
Wings
Defender
Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3
Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2
Rock N' Roll Racing
Yoshi's Story
Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland
Super Mario Advance
PAC-MAN Collection
Tetris Worlds (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Earthworm Jim
Earthworm Jim 2
Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure
Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire 2
The Lost Vikings
Final Fight One
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo Revival
Phalanx
A Boy and His Blob Advance
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Doom
Doom II
Wolfenstein 3D
LUNAR: Legend
Sega Smash Pack
Namco Museum
Midway's Greatest Arcade Hits
Game & Watch Gallery 4
Atari Anniversary Advance
Konami Collectors: Arcade Advanced
Bubble Bobble Old & New


-=ORIGINAL=-
Mario Kart Super Circuit (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
ChuChu Rocket! (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Super Bust-a-Move (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Contra Advance: The Alien Wars EX (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Spy Hunter (Not sure what category this belongs in...)
Sabre Wulf (yes, it's still coming.)
Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge (yes, it's still coming.)
Diddy Kong Pilot (yes, it's still coming.)
Donkey Kong Coconut Crackers (yes, it's still coming.)
Denki Blocks
Snood
Cruis'n Velocity
Monster Farm Mania
ESPN X Games Skateboarding
NFL Blitz 20-02 GBA
Powerpuff Girls: Mojo Jojo A-Go-Go
Denki Blocks
High Heat Major League Baseball 2002
Hot Potato!
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2
Dragon Ball Z: The Legacy of Goku
Magi-Nation Advance
Broken Sword II: The Smoking Mirror
Zone of the Enders: The Fist of Mars
Broken Sword III: The Sleeping Dragon
King Of Fighters EX: Neo Blood
European Super League
Gradius Galaxies
Crash Bandicoot: The Huge Adventure
Crazy Chase starring Kid Klown
Driven (GBA)
Sports Illustrated for Kids Baseball
Sports Illustrated for Kids Football
Sports Illustrated for Kids Basketball
Rugrats Castle Capers
Lady Sia
Minority Report
BackTrack
Boxing Fever
Midnight Club
GT Advance 2: Rally Racing
M&M's Party
Duke Nukem: Retribution
Rocket Power: Dream Scheme
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.
Pinball of the Dead
Roll-o-Rama
Tang Tang
Moto GP Advance
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Oni Advance
Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Fila Decathlon
Hot Wheels: Burnin' Rubber
James Pond: Codename Robocod
Rampage Puzzle Attack
MX 2002 Featuring Ricky Carmichael
Worms Blast Advance
Wizardry: Summoner
Men in Black: the Series
Razor Freestyle Scooter
Mega Man Battle Network 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Fire Emblem Advance
Jurassic Park III: The DNA Factor
Jurassic Park III: Park Builder
Jurassic Park III: Primal Fear
Frogger's Adventure: Temple of the Frog
Sansara Naga
Lego Island 2: The Brickster's Revenge
Mat Hoffman's Pro BMX
Mech Platoon
Tom and Jerry: The Magic Ring
Survivor GBA
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars
Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles
Guilty Gear X Advance Edition
Car Battler Joe
Shaun Palmer's Pro Snowboarder
4x4 Off-Roaders
Aerial Aces
Pocky & Rocky with Becky
CUBE
Batman: Vengeance
Ecks vs. Sever
Dexter's Laboratory: Deesaster Strikes!
Powerpuff Girls: Him and Seek
Creatures
Klonoa: Empire of Dreams
Spider-Man: Mysterio's Menace
Columns Crown
Dark Arena
F-14 Tomcat
X-Men: Reign of Apocalypse
Gadget Racers
Lego Bionicle: Quest for the Toa
Lego Racers 2
Stuart Little 2
Super Dodge Ball Advance
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
Mega Man Battle Network
Pinobee: Wings of Adventure
F-Zero: Maximum Velocity
Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis
Wario Land 4
Magical Vacation
ESPN Championship Golf 2002
Bomberman Tournament
Advance Wars
Top Gear GT Championship
Fire Pro Wrestling
Tweety and the Magic Jewel
Fortress
Alone in the Dark
Mr. Driller 2
E.T.: The Extra Terrestrial
SpongeBob SquarePants: SuperSponge
Konami Krazy Racers
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Metroid Fusion
Hardcore Pinball
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Super Monkey Ball Jr.
Bokura no Taiyou (Our Sun)
Pokemon: Ruby Version
Pokemon: Sapphire Version
GT Advance 3
Altered Beast: Guardians of the Realm
Legends of Wrestling II
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 3
Gauntlet: Dark Legacy
WWE Road to WrestleMania X8
Slam Dunk: Streetball
He-Man: The Power of Grayskull
Hot Wheels: Velocity X
Invincible Iron Man
Super Bubble Pop
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Iridion
Iridion II
Digimon: Battle Spirits
X-Men: Wolverine's Revenge
Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicle
Golden Sun
Golden Sun II
Samurai Jack
Sonic Advance
Sonic Advance II
Galidor: Defenders of the Outer Dimension
Yu-Gi-Oh! The Eternal Duelist Soul
Army Men Advance
Spyro: Season of Ice
GT Advance Championship Racing
Rayman Advance
Rayman 3 GBA
Tekken Advance
Heart of Darkness
Young Olympians: Mythos
Scooby-Doo and the Cyber Chase
Invader
Black Belt Challenge
Puyo Pop
Power Rangers Time Force
Ultimate Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat Advance
Planet of the Apes
The Wild Thornberrys: Chimp Chase
Prehistorik Man
Bomberman Max 2
Muppet Pinball Mayhem
Urban Yeti
Smuggler's Run
Magical Quest Starring Mickey and Minnie Mouse
Shining Soul
NBA Jam 2002
MLB Baseball from Sega
Lufia: The Ruins of Lore
Monsters, Inc.
Tom and Jerry: The Magic Ring GBA
Caesar's Palace Advance
Star X
Jackie Chan Adventures: Legend of the Dark Hand
Tiny Toons Adventure: Buster's Bad Dream
WWF: Road to Wrestlemania
No Rules: Get Phat
Alienators: Evolution Continues
Wizards
Motocross Maniacs Advanced
Fire Pro Wrestling 2
X-Bladez: In-Line Skater
Sheep
Black Black
Colin Mc Rae Rally 2.0
Chessmaster
Salt Lake 2002
Maya the Bee
Robotech: The Macross Saga
Baseball Advance
Punch King
Jonny Moseley Mad Trix
Inspector Gadget: Adavnce Mission
Mike Tyson Boxing
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
Shrek Swamp Kart Speedway
All-Star Baseball 2003 GBA
Penny Racers
The Scorpion King: Sword of Osiris
Spyro 2: Season of Flame
Monster Force
The Lord of the Rings, Part One
Frogger Advance: The Great Quest
Dinotopia: The Timestone Pirates
Blender Bros.
Ice Age
ZooCube
NHL 2002
Driver 2 Advance
Virtual Kasparov
Egg Mania: Eggstreme Madness GBA
Dexter's Laboratory: Chess Challenge
Matchbox Cross Town Heroes
Fairly OddParents
David Beckham Soccer GBA
Backyard Baseball
Disney All-Star Sports: Soccer (GBA)
Disney All-Star Sports: Skateboarding (GBA)
Disney All-Star Sports: Football (GBA)
Disney All-Star Sports: Snowboarding
Disney All-Star Sports: Basketball (GBA)
Klonoa 2 (GBA)
Klonoa Heroes: Legend of the Star Medal
Shrek Extra Large
Shrek: Hassle at the Castle
Spiralstone
The Revenge of Shinobi
Space Channel 5
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer GBA
Shaun Murray's Pro Wakeboarder (GBA)
Turbo Turtle Adventure
Donkey Kong Plus
Kururin Paradise
Airforce Delta Storm
Yu-Gi-Oh! The Immortal Duelist Soul
Yu-Gi-Oh! Dungeon Dice Monsters
WTA Tour Tennis
BattleBots: Beyond the Battlebox
The Hulk GBA
Silent Scope
Next Generation Tennis
The Sum of all Fears - GBA
Oddworld: Munch's Oddyssey
Monster Truck Madness 2.0 (eh?)
Cubix: Robots for Everyone: Clash 'n Bash
Rocky GBA
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers GBA
Madden NFL 2003 GBA
Moto Racer Advance
Ronin
Virtua Tennis GBA
Godzilla: Domination
Star Wars Episode II: The New Droid Army
Hyperspace Delivery Boy
SSX Tricky
Kong: The Animated Series
The Mummy
Disney’s The Jungle Book
Sabrina The Teenage Witch: Potion Commotion
Justice League: Injustice for All
Dr. Muto GBA
ATV: Quad Power Racing
Woody Woodpecker in Crazy Castle 5
Lego Island Xtreme Stunts
Aggressive Inline GBA
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Prophecy
Deadly Skies
Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe
The Pink Panther
Starsky & Hutch (GBA)
Sega Rally Championship
Reign of Fire GBA
Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town
SpongeBob SquarePants: Flying Dutchman GBA
Ripping Friends, The
xXx
Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever
FIFA Soccer 2003 GBA
Rocket Power: Beach Bandits GBA
The Invincible Iron Man
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Jazz Jackrabbit
Kien
R-Type III: The Third Lightning
Zapper GBA
Sea Trader: Rise of Taipan
Karnaaj Rally
Jimmy Neutron vs. Jimmy Negatron
GT Advance 3: Pro Concept Racing
Vexx GBA
NHL Hitz 20-03 GBA
 
About that list :
Mario Kart Super Circuit
ChuChu Rocket!
Broken Sword II: The Smoking Mirror
Crazy Chase starring Kid Klown
Pinball of the Dead
James Pond: Codename Robocod
Jurassic Park III: The DNA Factor
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars
Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles
Alone in the Dark
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Altered Beast: Guardians of the Realm
X-Men: Wolverine's Revenge
Army Men Advance
Rayman Advance
Heart of Darkness
Ultimate Mortal Kombat
Prehistorik Man
Colin Mc Rae Rally 2.0
Chessmaster
Virtual Kasparov
The Revenge of Shinobi
Space Channel 5
Oddworld: Munch's Oddyssey
Virtua Tennis GBA
Disney’s The Jungle Book
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Prophecy
Deadly Skies
Sega Rally Championship
Reign of Fire GBA
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Jazz Jackrabbit

Either they are remakes (James Pond, Chessmaster) or ports... IMO they are the same, there's no original idea behind a port, in the end it's just some kind of remake (well, it's not, but I hope you get my point...) many remakes are missing on that list, just right now I'd lie if I mention names... only 2 come to mind, the "new" seiken densetsu and the rumored remake of Lunar EB... as soon as I get the others I'll post them...
Ok, back to next gen consoles discussion... though IMO the GBA fits the category as it's a next gen portable system...
 
Discussion starter · #667 · (Edited)
Hey, it's easy to criticize. You didn't have to make that list. :D It's not your eyes that are bleeding, and have the bruised fingers to prove it.

I'll get around to countering that later.... I guess.

Kingstar's original point was that GBA only had SNES remakes. I have disproved that and then some. If you want to do remakes in general, well that's a lot harder.

Without going too much into detail right now, I don't see how come you have games such as Chu Chu Rocket! and Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles on that list. It's true that nothing groundbreaking is going into those games, but they are more than mere ports. They are essentially being moved from Dreamcast/PSX to a GameBoy, which is a lot more than a straight port.

And I am aware that I missed a few games on that list, but do you have any idea how hard it is to find a complete list of GBA games? This list is essentially the whole thing at PlanetGameCube, but since they are not a GBA site, they don't regularly update that portion as much as they do the GameCube stuff.

Anyways, I'll go over this list with you tomorrow if I must. Right now I lack the energy, and I desperately need sleep.

EDIT: Woo hoo!! 666th post!
 
> Kingstar's original point was that GBA only had SNES remakes. I have disproved that and then some. If you want to do remakes in general, well that's a lot harder.

I know, my point is wider that Kingstar's... still it's my oppinion, the GBA features too many remixes and ports... not the console's fault though, more likely the game producer's...
 
Originally posted by Ninja
> Kingstar's original point was that GBA only had SNES remakes. I have disproved that and then some. If you want to do remakes in general, well that's a lot harder.
well, thats exactly what i said " out of 5 GBA games, 3 games are remakes" . Anyhow, the number of remakes ( as far as i see) are more than the number of orginals. The only original game i liked in GBA was Sonic Advance, its a hard, but yet, fun game. When i refer to your list, It seems that I was wrong. Anyhow, I shall see for myself, since I didnt play many games listed on the "original" list...

Anyhow, that should be the end of the discussion, Ninja's list was so long, I am sure he put alot of effort into it, so thanks ninja! :)
 
Save
Discussion starter · #670 ·
Heh. No problem. My purpose in life is to guide the lost sheep toward the truth. ;) It took a huge chunk of my time, and was indeed a lot of work, but it was worth it.

Anyways, there's some new news on the Nintendo/Sony front. In a countermove to the Xbox Live it seems, Sega has announced that they will be using their own servers to host PS2/GCN games. It seems that there is finally a viable way for developers to create online games for GameCube, whether Nintendo is ready or not. Personally, I am a little anxious, as this will take a lot of wind out of whatever it was that Nintendo had up their sleeves, but I am more grateful, as Nintendo had to get around to it sooner or later. The online aspect of the Xbox seemed to have become a major selling factor.
 
Originally posted by Ninja
Heh. No problem. My purpose in life is to guide the lost sheep toward the truth. ;) It took a huge chunk of my time, and was indeed a lot of work, but it was worth it.
(...)
*Kaiser yawns with an evil smile* "And with the ages the shepherd thought he knew the way in the woods as well as the palm of his hand... one day he strayed of the path and got himself and the sheeps lost... that day the wolf attacked, devouring the fool shepherd and feasting on the skins of the sheeps..."
Ahem... here's a little list, it's not finished I'll look more as soon as I can, but so far it contains all the titles that fits my description... either remakes or ports (ports of old games, I don't consider Spiderman : The movie to be a port that counts against the GBA)...

Super Mario Advance
Chu Chu Rocket
Fire Pro Wrestling
Silent Hill
Final Fight One
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing - Round 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Namco Museum Advance
Earthworm Jim
Pitfall - The Mayan Adventure
Army Men Advance
F-Zero - Maximum Velocity
Fire Pro Wrestling
Rayman Advance
Breath of Fire
Super Street Fighter II X
Pac-Man Collection
Mario Kart Advance
Jurassic Park 3 - DNA Factor
Tetris Worlds
Caesar's Palace Advance
Prehistorik Man
Doom
Super Street Fighter II Turbo
Gradius Advance
Star Wars - Jedi Power Battles
Mat Hoffman's Pro BMX
Super Bust-A-Move
Midways Greatest Arcade Hits
Columns Crown
Super Mario Advance
Breath of Fire II
Mortal Kombat Advance
Tekken Advance
Guilty Gear X
Puyo Pop
NBA Jam 2002
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3
Space Invaders
Rainbow Six Rogue Spear
Broken Sword - The Shadow of the Templars
Chessmaster
Wolfenstein 3D
Lunar Legend
Super Mario World
Earthworm Jim 2
Yoshi's Island
Super Ghouls N Ghosts
Street Fighter Zero/Alpha 3
Samurai Evolution
Sega Smash Pack

I'll update it as soon as I find new material... BTW it doesn't contain some of the titles on your list of remixes...
Note : my purpose in life... *smiles* that's a big secret...
 
Discussion starter · #672 ·
Heh. You are one strange guy Kaiser. I did indeed miss a few on that list. The only one that really stands out at me at the moment is Silent Hill, but I am sure I missed more as well on both sides.

I'll just throw a few names back at you at the moment, and then I have to go watch a movie.

these are not remakes.

F-Zero - Maximum Velocity
Star Wars - Jedi Power Battles
Rainbow Six Rogue Spear
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2

There are more I am sure, but I am less familiar with them, so I will let them go for now. Anyways, I'm off.
 
> F-Zero - Maximum Velocity
I have to see the game... maybe I talked before time... but to me it looked like some kind of port of the snes version...

> Star Wars - Jedi Power Battles
Direct port of the Dreamcast version, which by the way, was an awful game...

> Rainbow Six Rogue Spear
PC game... from what I read it IS some kind of port...

> Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Isn't there a THPS for the PSX and the PC ? yeah, that's what I thought...
 
Discussion starter · #674 ·
Kaiser, F-Zero is a sequel to the SNES version. It happens roughly 25 years after the SNES game.

As for the others, come on man, listen to yourself. Dreamcast PORT on GBA? Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous to you? The game has to be redesigned from the ground up to be made on the GBA. In doing so, it becomes a completely new experience, and a new game.

I have played THPS2 on N64, PSX, and GBA. The N64 and PSX versions were identical in most respects, except that the buttons used were different , and the graphics were better on the N64.

On the GBA, the game was COMPLETELY different. The controls didn't work the same, the game was no longer in full 3D, and the game just felt different.
 
"Megaton" Announcement musings...

I spent a lot of time wondering around the various retail stores today (securing my copy of RE:0 and Metroid Prime, though I wont get to play them until December 24th :(); while I was in one store I noticed something that I hadn't ever noticed before: The Konami Logo on a pack of Yu-Gi-Oh! cards.

This made me start thinking about the Nitendo's Megaton announcement. If I remember correctly, Yu-Gi-Oh! is more popular in Japan (at least Sales-wise) than Pokémon, and we know how Pokémon boosts the sales of GBA. Konami supposedly has big news to announce as well, and since the Yu-Gi-Oh! is Konami and all.. But I seriously hope that is not it. I mean, I really don't think it is, after how bad the N64 Pokémon games were, I really don't see a NGC Pokémon game boosting sales; nor a Yu-Gi-Oh! game either.

We know its not Dragonquest (a a title that is more popular in Japan than the FF series, a factoid I learned from Ninja). But, personally, I dont think that a single or series of titles[*edit* like RE series or Megaman Series] (with the exception of Zelda, I knew people who bought an N64 just to play it, and with the GC being the cheapest of the new consoles, it could happen again) would boost sales of the console any significant amount. It would take a WHOLE LOT of Titles. If Rockstar, Konami, and Square said that "Screw the PS2, the NGC is getting all the new GTAs and MGs and FFs" then yeah, but that just ISNT going to happen.

My Theory- A Bad-@$$ Peripheral. Some sort of add-on for the NGC; maybe something that connects to your PC, or ummm......, a new powerglove, or.. Rob GC (with Gyromite 64!), I dont know.. something. Games make the consoles and all, but I don't know.. I suspect it has to be something more...
 
Discussion starter · #676 ·
Eh? I don't know who told you that Yu-Gi-Oh sold more than Pokemon... whoever did lied. Here are the sales data so far. (In millions)

Pocket Monster (Green, Red, Blue) 8.00
Pocket Monster Silver 3.41
Pocket Monster Gold 3.30
Pocket Monster Crystal 1.82
Pocket Monster Yellow 1.70

Yugioh Duel Monsters 1.60
Yugioh Duel Monsters II: Dark Duel Stories 1.45
Yugioh Duel Monsters IV:Strongest Duel Record 2.05

Actually, I was thinking some more about this myself. The rumors seem to be flying around like crazy about Konami lately. As we all know, Konami is the last of the major developers to embrace the GameCube. Once Konami's in, Nintendo will have all the ones that really count.

A few Konami games have been confirmed on the side. Eclipse (Kojima's GameCube project) being one of the more prominant ones. It was thought that Konami was going to announce some SERIOUS support for GameCube recently, but the Capcom announcement caused them to delay their own announcement for a little longer. I think it's entirely possible, as Eclipse still hasn't been officially confirmed, although unofficial reports say that Konami and Nintendo have finally managed to reconcile their differences.

What if Capcom and Konami are just the tip of the iceberg? What if a whole bunch of developers are about to announce a bunch of games for GameCube? It's possible, and would definately sell a lot of GameCubes. And Nintendo really is up to something. They just ordered a whole stockpile of CPUs from IBM, and seem to be entrenching themselves preparing for a huge amount of customers.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Knowing my luck, it will be something stupid (but cool nonetheless), but I still have my expectations high. :)
 
you guys really know a lot of games... my head aches reading your post and kaiser ninja... but then again, these games are well related to the topic... Pokemon is way too popular compare to Yu-Gi-Oh...
 
Save
/how bad the N64 Pokémon games were/
man,ever seen the graphs of pok.stadium2???those where beautifull:) anyway,ya,the gameplay and story wasn't fantastic,but it was great to see them do the stuff in 3d
 
Originally posted by Ninja
Kaiser, F-Zero is a sequel to the SNES version. It happens roughly 25 years after the SNES game.

As for the others, come on man, listen to yourself. Dreamcast PORT on GBA? Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous to you? The game has to be redesigned from the ground up to be made on the GBA. In doing so, it becomes a completely new experience, and a new game.

I have played THPS2 on N64, PSX, and GBA. The N64 and PSX versions were identical in most respects, except that the buttons used were different , and the graphics were better on the N64.

On the GBA, the game was COMPLETELY different. The controls didn't work the same, the game was no longer in full 3D, and the game just felt different.
It may look different but a port is still a port, like it or not... no original idea behind it, that's the plain truth... Jedi Power Battles IS a port, learn to live with it... if you want to sum points to the GBA by altering the facts, well that's your choice, the truth remains the same...
 
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