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TastEPlasma

· The Nexus of a Crisis, and The Origin of Storms
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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Greetings,

Well, in the spirit of continuing to bite off more than I can chew (NWN2 Mod, Oblivion Mod, 3D Modeling, C++, etc, etc), I have been seriously considering producing a remake of a particular NES game that I have strong memories of.

This game, which is zelda-esque in nature, I do not want to remake in 3D. If I wanted to do that the oblivion engine would be perfect, hell, half the scripts and sfx I would need are already out there. The problem is the mass amount of 3D models and animation that would be needed, and my modeling skills suck and 3D animation skills are non-existent.

So, I began googling and browsing for 2D engines, preferably freeware, and I came across the following page:

Game Engines - GDWiki

There is a lot here, and I am far from through the list, but I found at least one that seemed somewhat promising, at least in terms of what it has already accomplished on the freeware arena:

Allegro - Introduction

Anyways, I wanted to ask around and see what those in the know have to say about the various progs available.

Truth be told, the less actual low-level stuff I have to deal with, the more likely I am to be able to accomplish this project, but at the same time I dont want to go with something so limited that I will be unable to faithfully reproduce (in higher quality) the original game.

Yes, yes, anyways, please with the comments, suggestions, information, and whatever else comes to mind.

Thanks,
TastEPlasma

Ok, I have narrowed it down to 3 possibilities:
1. Allegro - Introduction
2. Goblin 2D+
3. Haaf's Game Engine

EDIT 2: Ok, just noticed the programming/web development forum subcategory, perhaps this would be better off over there? Would a mod be so kind as to move it? I would very much appreciate it. :)
 
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#2 ·
the oblivion engine is far from perfect.....use the Doom3 engine and customise it like crazy,
 
#5 ·
I don't really suggest the use of 2D engines, (Don't misunderstand me, some of them are really good..) but I prefer dealing with Ogre3D which is perfect for 3D OpenGL or DirectX... but it's just me, maybe you need something simple and fast library to help you build your game in no time.. get yourself comfort with Ogre3D (believe me, there is a lot of documentations, and it's really has simple OO style)
just look at the screenshots and games made using this engine..

OGRE 3D : Open source graphics engine - Home

but you need 2D, any engine would do, but which one is easier or faster, that's the question..
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Squall-Leonhart said:
the oblivion engine is far from perfect.....use the Doom3 engine and customise it like crazy,
Click to expand...
Well, I mean perfect for my purposes. Sure, it has a lots of flaws, but I have done lots of retexturing stuff in the past, plus it has a landscape editor w/ speedtree, do it wouldn't be too hard to modify existing stuff to my purpose. The real problem there is creating enemies/animations, which is simply too time consuming and beyond my skills.

I don't know too much about the doom3 engine, except that by chance I happen to be playing back through it again (with a high-res, occlusion parallax texture mod), and I do find myself being re-impressed all over again. It really is capable of neat things. Also, it's a lot of fun to play, particularly the first half of the game, because it really does feel to me like I am playing a 3D version of the original Doom. Which I am. So that's cool. :p

runawayprisoner said:
Adobe Flex or Flash would be perfect for making games. The 2D engines are already there. Plus you even get vector support, which means beyond HD.

Though... you have to pay for them.
Click to expand...
Well, money is out of the question, especially since most developer's licences I have seen are really expensive (>$250).

Also, I have yet to see a single adobe flash game that really impressed me. Most of them do well on sites like say, neopets, where the average drawings and crude animation fit the overall theme well. Definitely not what I am looking for.

h4tred said:
You could try SDL also, which allows rendering to surfaces, like how DirectDraw works....
Click to expand...
Hmm, SDL does look interesting. I will keep it on my list for considering, though ATM I have tentatively decided to go with Goblin2d+, given it's ease of use, the fact that it incorporates a sound module, and the fact that it's companion program sprite slicer makes animating the sprites that much easier.

Rebel_X said:
I don't really suggest the use of 2D engines, (Don't misunderstand me, some of them are really good..) but I prefer dealing with Ogre3D which is perfect for 3D OpenGL or DirectX... but it's just me, maybe you need something simple and fast library to help you build your game in no time.. get yourself comfort with Ogre3D (believe me, there is a lot of documentations, and it's really has simple OO style)
just look at the screenshots and games made using this engine..

OGRE 3D : Open source graphics engine - Home

but you need 2D, any engine would do, but which one is easier or faster, that's the question..
Click to expand...
Yea, OGRE does look like a good engine with some pretty neat, modern features like speedtree, realtime shadowing, and bumbmaps, but I don't think it is for me. If I was going 3D I would probably just go with an oblivion mod, since the physics, collisions, sound, and even underlying GUI code would all be predone for me. There are some things that going from 2D to 3D would be nonsensical though, like an inability to swim.

You are right though, easier and faster are two of the main criteria I am examining, the 3rd being the ability to faithfully reproduce/enhance the feel and gameplay of the original.


I appreciate the responses so far, keep the suggestions coming. I'm going to need all the help I can get. :)

Sincerely,
TastEPlasma
 
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#7 · (Edited)
SFML aint bad looking either, compared to SDL ( SFML site )
Panda3D aint too shabby either, though Ogre3D certainly seems to have the advantage.

Btw, for spite making, you can use SpriteForge. Makes it easy to make sprites of quality equivalent to/superior to Starcraft, provided detailled enough 3d models of them (Lite version has limited size for sprite export, otherwise is fully usable)
D-Grafix Design, SpriteForge LITE & PRO SpriteSet Renderer
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the links Rikki, some of those are really interesting.

I got curious to see if in the long run I couldn't produce a better looking game faster by making 3D models and then using a program like that SpriteForge to render them.

It took me about an hour to pull the original sprite out of the game, enlarge and enhance it, and give it some basic frames of animation.

That was around noon-ish. I have spent the last 8 F-ing hours in Blender, relearning how to use that unintuitive, obtuse program. I managed finally to put together a very simple model, with a texture (that wont appear on the rendered screen, not sure whats up there). Still no animations, doesnt really need a skeleton I don't think, couldn't get transparencies to work for some god awful reason, and honestly it doesn't look much different from the original, maybe even a little less detailed since a lot of modern 3D model's details only become apparent as it moves through an environment with dynamic lighting/shadowing/bumbmapping.

Oh man, I can totally see why so many projects of this nature never reach completion. I need to really ask myself if I am dedicated enough to spend the next couple of years working on this in my spare time, or if I should just go find something else to do.

Sincerely,
TastEPlasma
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
And disrespect the source material? Nevar!! ;)

Sorry, but I really don't want to produce a boring, forgettable browser game. In that sense, I would rather spend several years on the project.

I have been thinking that maybe I would be better off with some original IP, a sort of "spiritual-successor" kind of thing.

Truthfully, I have been waffling back and forth about a bazillion design decisions. 2D? 2D w/ pre-rendered sprites? 2.5D? 3D?

3D is kinda strange in the sense that unlike 2D, where you directly produce what is to be shown on the screen, in 3D it seems to be more a matter of designing the background and framework, so that the 3D engine itself can generate the graphics. Good 2D requires more artistry than tech, while good 3D seems to focus more on tech than artistry. Obviously, a certain level of proficiency is necessary to produce either type of interactive entertainement.

Anyways, yea, I just dont see what Flash or Java based games have to offer, almost all of them are terrible MSpaint drawings and transformational (rather than actual redrawing of frames) animation.

Sincerely,
TastEPlasma
 
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#11 · (Edited)
Flash can do amazing things. It's just plagued with teenager kids trying to create things in ActionScript 2.0... because it's too damn easy. :p I like it, too, for the fact that it's very expandable (talking about ActionScript 3.0 at this point. And yeah, they're different), and has enough support for I/O that... I'd think I can write an entire OS with it. (Online OS. Concept is that you have something... to manage and do stuffs online instead. And it might be accessible on anything that has a web browser. This is totally different from Windows, of course, and it's not a new concept.)

Plus the deployment method is easy, since dependency won't be a problem. :D

You want to see what Flash can do? Check out the Eco Zoo.

THE ECO ZOO | ECODA!DOBUTSUEN

I don't see how that site can be made with MS Paint alone, and mind you... it's just one swf file... :p (Maybe one swf file calling the rest... but that's a different matter)

P.S.: ActionScript 3.0 actually has its own platform now, which is called Adobe AIR. I'd think that once that thing is deployed on desktop in full force, it can make some applications that will make others pale in comparison. And then the difference between it being an internet applet, and a fully functional application that can do stuffs on your computer... might be very blurry.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
That place is pretty well done, and they do some things that I have never seen done with Flash before. Nevertheless, thats a far cry from a full fledged game. Show me a Zelda3-equivalent flash game and I would be not only shocked as hell, but seriously consider it for my project.

Sorry, I'm not trying to shoot down your suggestion or anything, it's just that I don't see much potential there.

The other issue I am having is trying to live up to my own memories of and expectations regarding the game I want to remake. I really question if a simple PC-port with minor upgrades and some engrish fixes is worth my time, when so many awesome NES emulators take care of business pretty well. On that tip, a 3D remake would certainly have a lot more "pizazz" to it.
 
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#15 ·
I really really like things which have the guts to ingore 3D and use 2.5D and 2D instead. 2.5D and 2D still have so much potential and can look so awesome. Just take a look at Bionic Commando Rearmed.
Bionic Commando
Bionic Commando
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bionic_Commando_Rearmed

Now if that's not an awesome looking NES remake then I don't know what is.

Sorry I know this is not directly linked to what you want, but I just wanted to let you know that both 2D and 2.5D still have a lot of potential left. Especially for spruced up remakes.
 
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Discussion starter · #17 ·
Aw crap. Just did some checking on Goblin2Ds forums, although there are posts as late as last august, the developer hasn't posted there in quite some time. The documentation is a bit on the sparse side, and myself being the noob I am, I will undoubtedly require assistance.

I guess I will have to tentatively choose a different engine to power my project.
 
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