what's the aim of the one who developes all these emulators? to create a perfect working software or to earn money via paypal? i don't know... but if they just want to create a better software (that's what I think, or it wouldn't be freeware), why don't they collaborate? i think it would be better to have ONE working emulator than 1000000 half-working ones... there are different emulators which have different peculiarities. it would be better if there were one with all of these toghether. development would be faster, too. why not?
why?
- Status
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
i was actually wondering the same thing the other day.
take for example DeSmuME and iDeaS. both are still being actively worked on, but both are far from perfect and have some ways to go, so why not combine forces on one project.
sometimes its not so simple as that.
the only way you would be able to get a real answer would be to ask those people working on them. i'd say that most of us would only be able to speculate the reasons.
take for example DeSmuME and iDeaS. both are still being actively worked on, but both are far from perfect and have some ways to go, so why not combine forces on one project.
sometimes its not so simple as that.
the only way you would be able to get a real answer would be to ask those people working on them. i'd say that most of us would only be able to speculate the reasons.
Joined
·
13,070 Posts
Generally good emulation. Show that it can be done (some will call that "the challenge of it").
Coders are not completely isolated from each others. Obviously a reasonable contact with each others at least would exist.
Because no amount of goodwill will change the orientations of each projects and difficulties that wouldnt favour 'merges' (possible bad wording, but the general sense might have been conveyed).
Rather than repeat the same points, feel free to read about those in this earlier thread on the same topic. It was posted 18 months ago, but the same argumentation still is as valid today as before.
- http://forums.ngemu.com/misc-handheld-discussion/91380-why-not-merge.html
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
You know nothing about how developing software works, more remarkably on hobby projects. Most of us have different working standards and motivations, which most of the time collide. If we would want to adhere to a single one, we would be suffering the same problems we already do at work/university/whatever. Code an emulator, and then talk about it from your experience POV.
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
ccl0: Yes, when I wrote it I didn't notice, edited it to be less rude. It's just that people talking about something they don't even know a bit (code together, it must be easy) makes me sick. I don't go to medical doctors and try to tell them how they should work, why should programmers allow it?
i understand that point of view, but if his question had no malice in it, then you should not take things like that as an insult. i dont think he was trying to do anything but simply ask about it. i'm sure others have wondered about it as well. if people got bashed every time they asked harmless questions like that then nobody would want to post here anymore.
i dont think anyone would pretend it would be easy to do. but sometimes there are benefits to collaboration/ teamwork etc.
i dont think anyone would pretend it would be easy to do. but sometimes there are benefits to collaboration/ teamwork etc.
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
There are benefits, and also problems. When you invest your free time on a project, you often want freedom which is somewhat limited on projects with a team, due to shared coding standards, different goals, etc.
About the question, I repeat, do you tell doctors how they should work or organize? Probably no, then don't do the same with programmers. I don't really care if it's on good will or not, it's a matter of knowing what you're asking for, which the thread opener didn't really know.
It's a matter of respect to the work we do and knowing what we do: asking this kind of questions, without even trying to look why it won't work 90% of the time, is a matter of disrespect to programmers.
About the question, I repeat, do you tell doctors how they should work or organize? Probably no, then don't do the same with programmers. I don't really care if it's on good will or not, it's a matter of knowing what you're asking for, which the thread opener didn't really know.
It's a matter of respect to the work we do and knowing what we do: asking this kind of questions, without even trying to look why it won't work 90% of the time, is a matter of disrespect to programmers.
yes, just let me clarify. i really didn't want to offend you or any other coder: mine was just a question, when i wrote it i already knew that it isn't the best thing for you developers to merge (or it already would be so), but i just want to know WHY (that's the thread title). i have known that the pcsx2pg team has merged with the official one, so i thought: why it isn't so here, too? i'm not telling you what you should do: i just want to know why you don't... mine is just a question... sorry if I let my words be misunderstood. i apologize if i offended you, i really didn't want. try to understand me: i admit i don't know ANYTHING about programming or developing, but for someone who sees many emulators far from perfection, but everyone with something special, it is obvious (i think) to ask yourself: if they just want perfect emulation, why don't they merge their efforts in one emulator with all the peculiarities of everyone of the others, still not perfectly working? i'm not saying you should do this: indeed, i know that if you don't you've got your reason. i'm asking WHY.
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
Why huh? Well, there are various reasons... Let me name you some of them.
Some developers chooses to emulate a system in order to learn how this particular system works or/and how the host system works (DS is the emulated system and PC is the host system in our case). This includes the various APIs and software these systems have.
So the developers study about these systems, design and then emulate... and this goes on.
Other developers just want to test their skills and the knowledge they already have about the above mentioned systems or the programming language they use.
Others just want to see if emulating a system is possible even with lack of documentation and lots of reverse engineering, or if it's possible at acceptable speeds.
Some people just develop their own emulators because the existing ones are missing some functionality or features or the people who made them had different goals.
If a system is not yet emulated someone might choose to emulate it because no one else did.
When developing with a specific goal in mind letting more people contribute to your emulator is a no go since each one wants to do things differently and for different reasons.
A very common assumption is that a "united effort" would create a perfect emulator or something. This is false as the most common problems when emulating a system are the undocumented hardware parts and/or features of this system as well as the limitations and lack of features of the host system.
What I'm saying here is that a "Powerful" PC with a 600$ video card, 8 gigs of RAM and a CPU with 8 cores or something might be missing some features that a Nintendo DS has (leading to various problems). Not to mention that this same PC is useless if the developers don't know how some DS parts work.
Some developers chooses to emulate a system in order to learn how this particular system works or/and how the host system works (DS is the emulated system and PC is the host system in our case). This includes the various APIs and software these systems have.
So the developers study about these systems, design and then emulate... and this goes on.
Other developers just want to test their skills and the knowledge they already have about the above mentioned systems or the programming language they use.
Others just want to see if emulating a system is possible even with lack of documentation and lots of reverse engineering, or if it's possible at acceptable speeds.
Some people just develop their own emulators because the existing ones are missing some functionality or features or the people who made them had different goals.
If a system is not yet emulated someone might choose to emulate it because no one else did.
When developing with a specific goal in mind letting more people contribute to your emulator is a no go since each one wants to do things differently and for different reasons.
A very common assumption is that a "united effort" would create a perfect emulator or something. This is false as the most common problems when emulating a system are the undocumented hardware parts and/or features of this system as well as the limitations and lack of features of the host system.
What I'm saying here is that a "Powerful" PC with a 600$ video card, 8 gigs of RAM and a CPU with 8 cores or something might be missing some features that a Nintendo DS has (leading to various problems). Not to mention that this same PC is useless if the developers don't know how some DS parts work.
Joined
·
13,070 Posts
A few explanations were mentioned earlier, as well as in this thread.
Shortly:
- different licencing. Not a trivial question. Unless iDeaS and no$gba want to opensource their code (desmume having its code openly available makes it more futureproof. "The bus thing", anyone?).
- different language or implementations of the same (routines working in one emu for instance could not work entirely with another, in the unlikely probability that code merging was even possible to be considered, which obviously cant and more likely wont ever).
- different orientations and priorities for each team/project.
- joining effort in "one" emulator would mean 2-3 would get discontinued? In relation to the motivation thing mentioned earlier, its unlikely any would accept discontinuing their own emulator (thats why many emus for one single console or linux distros exist: "scratch an itch").
Shortly:
- different licencing. Not a trivial question. Unless iDeaS and no$gba want to opensource their code (desmume having its code openly available makes it more futureproof. "The bus thing", anyone?).
- different language or implementations of the same (routines working in one emu for instance could not work entirely with another, in the unlikely probability that code merging was even possible to be considered, which obviously cant and more likely wont ever).
- different orientations and priorities for each team/project.
- joining effort in "one" emulator would mean 2-3 would get discontinued? In relation to the motivation thing mentioned earlier, its unlikely any would accept discontinuing their own emulator (thats why many emus for one single console or linux distros exist: "scratch an itch").
I tell them they should do a better job all the time. One time I was diagnosed with an STD even though I was a virgin back when I was 17. That was funny.
Another time a doctor (and this is no joke) sewed up my aunts rear end after she had a child. Even more amazingly, she didn't sue him.
Now if emulator programmers ever get this stupid I will tell them to do a better job. But so far, not yet based on what I've seen.
You all don't exactly come off as the friendly social type though, so I can understand why you don't work together. ; )
Joined
·
28,630 Posts
That example is entirely different than what this is. PCSX2-Playground was not a seperate emulator, merely a modded PCSX2. Someone was taking the work done by the PCSX2 team implementing little tweaks on it to make it run more like how they thought it should run. The PCSX2 saw this and thought the fixes were good and it might be a good idea to officially integrate the fixes and their coders into the PCSX2 team rather than having them do their own seperate thing the whole time.
Similarily NHerve was working on DeSmuME producing his own modded version and now he works as part of the team.
What you however are talking about is two entirely seperate emus, coded entirely differently (not one on top of the other), by people with different ideals merging together...something which is pretty much impossible.
Wow..! oO
All this hubbub over a simple question!
Hey [L3Le] , there's absolutely no need for an apology!
It's not your fault that "shashClp" is going through his PMS days! (Sorry guy, but this is exactly the attitude you are exhibiting). I've only seen this type of
"I'm angry, every little thing irritates me so I lash out at anyone" attitude on previous girlfriend's special days.
The kid is just asking a simple question. He and everyone else in this forum has the right to ask. (If not, what the hell is the reason of even having a forum?) Even if by your standards the questions are dumb or unnecessary, there is no need for your attitude here.
If nobody was allowed to ask questions for answers that are obvious to others, there would be no schools, universities, or any other type of learning centers.
All this hubbub over a simple question!
Hey [L3Le] , there's absolutely no need for an apology!
It's not your fault that "shashClp" is going through his PMS days! (Sorry guy, but this is exactly the attitude you are exhibiting). I've only seen this type of
"I'm angry, every little thing irritates me so I lash out at anyone" attitude on previous girlfriend's special days.
The kid is just asking a simple question. He and everyone else in this forum has the right to ask. (If not, what the hell is the reason of even having a forum?) Even if by your standards the questions are dumb or unnecessary, there is no need for your attitude here.
If nobody was allowed to ask questions for answers that are obvious to others, there would be no schools, universities, or any other type of learning centers.
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
sandrodz: That your girlfriend/s are stupid and moved by those type of emotions, doesn't mean I am, keep that in mind. Probably that's why they go out with you.
The same that any school, university and other learning centers would tell, is the same I'll tell. It's better to search for the answer yourself than asking. If you don't find it, then ask, obviously.
Of course, you didn't think before posting (I already pointed that before, didn't I?). Just do a search for merge on the handheld section, and you'll see a lengthy explanation of why that wouldn't work.
So best, before posting again, try to use that little amount of grey matter you have.
The same that any school, university and other learning centers would tell, is the same I'll tell. It's better to search for the answer yourself than asking. If you don't find it, then ask, obviously.
Of course, you didn't think before posting (I already pointed that before, didn't I?). Just do a search for merge on the handheld section, and you'll see a lengthy explanation of why that wouldn't work.
So best, before posting again, try to use that little amount of grey matter you have.
....And here we go again! Since your empty attempts at insult are meaningless to me, I won't bother with them. However, I will make note of it again: DUDE (guy, gal, it, whatever you are), please take a time out. You are the only person here lashing out at everyone, and lowering yourself to lame @ss offensive replies. Keep your personal sh!t to yourself.
Not everyone has the time to search and search the net for answers before seeking help in a forum. Forums are a quick and convenient way of finding help from good people willing to offer it. We don't need sad/irritated people here attacking every newbie because they don't like their questions. I remind you again; that is what forums are for. If everyone used google to find answers beforehand, NOBODY would post here. Thus there would be no need for its existence.
It is common sense. So please take your own advise and THINK before you post meaningless and/or offensive replies.
Joined
·
13,070 Posts
Programmers know better why its not possible. Wishful hoping will not change the facts that make non-possible not just the merging of 4 DS emulators, but also standardization behind a 'single' project.
sandroz, Id suggest you keep it civil.
Again, see here, where all points were answered in the past (those remain valid). The same points keep being redisclosed every time by those who know better.
- http://forums.ngemu.com/misc-handheld-discussion/91380-why-not-merge.html
sandroz, Id suggest you keep it civil.
Again, see here, where all points were answered in the past (those remain valid). The same points keep being redisclosed every time by those who know better.
- http://forums.ngemu.com/misc-handheld-discussion/91380-why-not-merge.html
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
- Status
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!