what's fsb ?
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Front Side Bus
Front Side Bus. What is a Front Side Bus do you ask? Well most people say its the speed that your processor can send information from and to things in your computer. But, that is totally wrong. That is the Definition of the System Bus (the real bus speed of a processor.) FSB is really a "unique" channelling technology that makes the processor seem like its going at a higher bus speed (Pretty much compression). This is used in all of Amd's Durons and Athlons as well as in the Pentium 4. The real bus speed is really all that matters. The Real bus speed of a AMD Duron is 100mhz and for some athlons (Older ones) is 100. For new Athlons is 133 and for the p4 100. This is why the 1.4 ghz AMD Athlon is faster than the p4 it has a higher fsb (allowing it to get more done per clock cycle). Now the FSB does give a processor a slight advantage over a processor that doesn't have it Athlon Vs. p3 for example. But, the real speed will always win. To get the 266 fsb its simple 133x2. The get the p4's 400 its 100x4. Now your saying shouldn't that be faster???? In theory yes. But in reality no. After about 2.5 times the original bus it isn't even 1 perecentage point faster if you times it by 80. This is why 2x133 is faster than 4x100. Plus the ram in the system has to be the same speed as the fsb which is why the p4 uses rambus. Rambus is very expensive an really performes no better than ddr ram.
Hope I cleared that up
Front Side Bus. What is a Front Side Bus do you ask? Well most people say its the speed that your processor can send information from and to things in your computer. But, that is totally wrong. That is the Definition of the System Bus (the real bus speed of a processor.) FSB is really a "unique" channelling technology that makes the processor seem like its going at a higher bus speed (Pretty much compression). This is used in all of Amd's Durons and Athlons as well as in the Pentium 4. The real bus speed is really all that matters. The Real bus speed of a AMD Duron is 100mhz and for some athlons (Older ones) is 100. For new Athlons is 133 and for the p4 100. This is why the 1.4 ghz AMD Athlon is faster than the p4 it has a higher fsb (allowing it to get more done per clock cycle). Now the FSB does give a processor a slight advantage over a processor that doesn't have it Athlon Vs. p3 for example. But, the real speed will always win. To get the 266 fsb its simple 133x2. The get the p4's 400 its 100x4. Now your saying shouldn't that be faster???? In theory yes. But in reality no. After about 2.5 times the original bus it isn't even 1 perecentage point faster if you times it by 80. This is why 2x133 is faster than 4x100. Plus the ram in the system has to be the same speed as the fsb which is why the p4 uses rambus. Rambus is very expensive an really performes no better than ddr ram.
Hope I cleared that up
Really?
Hmm. Ask AMD. The ram must be the sam speed as the fsb for you to get the actuall speed. This is why a board with DDR Ram is so much faster than a board with SDR Ram. The reason that you can use sdram with both a p4 and and Amd Athlon is that the ram only has to match the real bus speed of the processor (For Amd 133mhz and for intel 100 mhz) not the FSB. Some where along the line everybody assumed FSB=System Bus. FSB does not = System bus. FSB=Front Side Busing (Which is a "unique", Unique is the word AMD used to explain it to me, chaneling technology that pushes more bandwidth through the system bus than is supposed to be making it seem faster.) This is why an AMD processor is faster than an intel because the AMDs use a faster Real Bus Speed. Look in your motherboard manual. When you over clock your processor you will notice that the current bus speed is 133 and you can increase it to like 148. But wait isn't the bus speed supposed to be 266? Like I said that is the FSB not the BUS Speed. To get an AMD FSB it is the Bus speed x 2 an intel is bus speed x 4. Learn what you are talking about and don't argue with some one who won 1st place in Computer Concepts if you don't know what you are talking about.
Hmm. Ask AMD. The ram must be the sam speed as the fsb for you to get the actuall speed. This is why a board with DDR Ram is so much faster than a board with SDR Ram. The reason that you can use sdram with both a p4 and and Amd Athlon is that the ram only has to match the real bus speed of the processor (For Amd 133mhz and for intel 100 mhz) not the FSB. Some where along the line everybody assumed FSB=System Bus. FSB does not = System bus. FSB=Front Side Busing (Which is a "unique", Unique is the word AMD used to explain it to me, chaneling technology that pushes more bandwidth through the system bus than is supposed to be making it seem faster.) This is why an AMD processor is faster than an intel because the AMDs use a faster Real Bus Speed. Look in your motherboard manual. When you over clock your processor you will notice that the current bus speed is 133 and you can increase it to like 148. But wait isn't the bus speed supposed to be 266? Like I said that is the FSB not the BUS Speed. To get an AMD FSB it is the Bus speed x 2 an intel is bus speed x 4. Learn what you are talking about and don't argue with some one who won 1st place in Computer Concepts if you don't know what you are talking about.
First of all, here is the real answer to the question. http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid5_gci509302,00.html
Second, Mwarhead needs to stop talking about things he doesn't have a clue on. Comparing FSB speeds has very little to do with the processor but the fact of the matter is that in many respects the Intel FSB is much better than the AMD one. Currently modern busses use a multiple data rate scheme where they send multiple instructions per clock cycle. For example, DDR transfers 2 instructions (on the rising of the clock and the other on the falling of the clock) therefore making it twice as fast as SDR at the same clock speed. I'm not sure exactly how the Intel bus works but it does effectively allow 4 instructions per clock, hence 400mhz. Once again this doesn't really compare the AMD and Intel processors but permits more data to be transferred at any given moment. Currently P4 boards allow 3.2 Gigabytes/sec. and AMD does 2.1 Gigabytes/sec. You tell me which one is faster.
Of course there's a whole latency issue which AMD wins but that's a different story...
Second, Mwarhead needs to stop talking about things he doesn't have a clue on. Comparing FSB speeds has very little to do with the processor but the fact of the matter is that in many respects the Intel FSB is much better than the AMD one. Currently modern busses use a multiple data rate scheme where they send multiple instructions per clock cycle. For example, DDR transfers 2 instructions (on the rising of the clock and the other on the falling of the clock) therefore making it twice as fast as SDR at the same clock speed. I'm not sure exactly how the Intel bus works but it does effectively allow 4 instructions per clock, hence 400mhz. Once again this doesn't really compare the AMD and Intel processors but permits more data to be transferred at any given moment. Currently P4 boards allow 3.2 Gigabytes/sec. and AMD does 2.1 Gigabytes/sec. You tell me which one is faster.
Of course there's a whole latency issue which AMD wins but that's a different story...
Wanted to post some proof here
An Intel P3 board. Remember p3s do not use FSB
3 Year Manuf. Warranty
The Intel® Desktop Board D815EEAL2 combines versatility and performance in a single solution, with options to meet multiple price and performance points. Based on the new Intel® 815E chipset, the Desktop Board D815EEAL2 supports Intel® Pentium® III processors with 100/133-MHz system bus speeds and Intel® Celeron processors at 66-MHz system bus. The Intel 815E chipset allows users to choose integrated Intel® 3D graphics, or an upgrade to a high-performance AGP graphics card. Also features integrated 16bit stereo sound, and an integrated Intel 10/100 network adapter.
UDMA100
4X AGP
5 x PCI Slots
1 x AGP Slot
3 DIMM slots (PC100-133)
An AMD Athlon Board. Remember Athlons and durons do use FSB Channeling Technlogy
BIOSTAR M7VKD
AthlonXP Ready!
AMD Approved for the 1.4Ghz Athlon and 950Mhz Duron!
Great low-cost high quality flexible 266FSB SocketA platform - From the motherboard value leader, Biostar
CHIPSET
VIA KT133a
CPU SUPPORT
AMD Approved for Athlon, AthlonXP and Duron SocketA CPUs up to 1.4Ghz @ 200 and 266 Front-Side bus. EXPANSION SLOTS
3 SDRAM slots (768mb max), 5 PCI slots, 1 ISA slot and 1 4x AGP slot.
FEATURES
(2) UDMA100 channels, for a total of 4 UDMA100 devices, (2) 3-wire fan headers, ATX Form factor, integrated AC97 stereo sound, (2) rear-facing USB headers, Retail box
Detailed Motherboard Specifications
An Intel P4 Board. Remember P4s do use FSB Channeling Technlogy
1 Year Warranty
Socket423
Solid performance, Microstar quality.
CHIPSET
Intel i850
CPU SUPPORT
Intel Pentium 4, up to 1.7Ghz, 400Mhz Front-Side bus.
EXPANSION SLOTS
4 RDRAM RIMM slots (2Gb max), 5 PCI slots, and 1 4x AGPPro slot.
FEATURES
(2) UDMA100 channels, for a total of 4 UDMA100 devices, 3 3-wire fan headers, DLED, ATX Form factor, Integrated AC'97 stereo sound, Retail box
Detailed Motherboard Specifications
You Notice that they are very careful not to substitute Bus for FSB as they are not the same thing. This confuses a lot of people this is why most of the time now days they list it as system interface speed.
An Intel P3 board. Remember p3s do not use FSB
3 Year Manuf. Warranty
The Intel® Desktop Board D815EEAL2 combines versatility and performance in a single solution, with options to meet multiple price and performance points. Based on the new Intel® 815E chipset, the Desktop Board D815EEAL2 supports Intel® Pentium® III processors with 100/133-MHz system bus speeds and Intel® Celeron processors at 66-MHz system bus. The Intel 815E chipset allows users to choose integrated Intel® 3D graphics, or an upgrade to a high-performance AGP graphics card. Also features integrated 16bit stereo sound, and an integrated Intel 10/100 network adapter.
UDMA100
4X AGP
5 x PCI Slots
1 x AGP Slot
3 DIMM slots (PC100-133)
An AMD Athlon Board. Remember Athlons and durons do use FSB Channeling Technlogy
BIOSTAR M7VKD
AthlonXP Ready!
AMD Approved for the 1.4Ghz Athlon and 950Mhz Duron!
Great low-cost high quality flexible 266FSB SocketA platform - From the motherboard value leader, Biostar
CHIPSET
VIA KT133a
CPU SUPPORT
AMD Approved for Athlon, AthlonXP and Duron SocketA CPUs up to 1.4Ghz @ 200 and 266 Front-Side bus. EXPANSION SLOTS
3 SDRAM slots (768mb max), 5 PCI slots, 1 ISA slot and 1 4x AGP slot.
FEATURES
(2) UDMA100 channels, for a total of 4 UDMA100 devices, (2) 3-wire fan headers, ATX Form factor, integrated AC97 stereo sound, (2) rear-facing USB headers, Retail box
Detailed Motherboard Specifications
An Intel P4 Board. Remember P4s do use FSB Channeling Technlogy
1 Year Warranty
Socket423
Solid performance, Microstar quality.
CHIPSET
Intel i850
CPU SUPPORT
Intel Pentium 4, up to 1.7Ghz, 400Mhz Front-Side bus.
EXPANSION SLOTS
4 RDRAM RIMM slots (2Gb max), 5 PCI slots, and 1 4x AGPPro slot.
FEATURES
(2) UDMA100 channels, for a total of 4 UDMA100 devices, 3 3-wire fan headers, DLED, ATX Form factor, Integrated AC'97 stereo sound, Retail box
Detailed Motherboard Specifications
You Notice that they are very careful not to substitute Bus for FSB as they are not the same thing. This confuses a lot of people this is why most of the time now days they list it as system interface speed.
Re: Wanted to post some proof here
The Tualatin and new Celerons use a GTL+ bus.
Sure does seem to confuse some people, yup.
The P3 uses a bus called GTL (Gunning Tranceiver Logic).
The Tualatin and new Celerons use a GTL+ bus.
Could you tell me wtf this 'channeling' technology is meant to be?
Again, lay off the crackpipe and explain your words.
You're wrong, asynchronous bus operation is possible. For example, running PC133 ram on a KT133 based motherboard. How about the P4X266 chipset? Wtf do you mean by 'actual' speed?
Let's try this: http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid5_gci213804,00.html
Front Side Bus was coined with the creation of the Pentium Pro processor to describe part of the DIB (Dual Independent Bus). This means that FSB is an accurate term to describe the processor to RAM communication in all Intel x86 CPUs designed afterwards (PII, PIII, and P4).
Before that there was just one bus to deal with the L2 cache and the main memory so in effect you would've just called the communication between the CPU and the memory a bus. That's pretty irrelevant though since they do the same thing and you're dragging this debate into a pointless tangent.
Front Side Bus was coined with the creation of the Pentium Pro processor to describe part of the DIB (Dual Independent Bus). This means that FSB is an accurate term to describe the processor to RAM communication in all Intel x86 CPUs designed afterwards (PII, PIII, and P4).
Before that there was just one bus to deal with the L2 cache and the main memory so in effect you would've just called the communication between the CPU and the memory a bus. That's pretty irrelevant though since they do the same thing and you're dragging this debate into a pointless tangent.
Channeling
Ok what FSB does is divide information in half (Or 4 ways with the p4) and sends more than one command through at once at a slower speed and uses compression to make it seem like full speed on both commands. So with it you can talk to more than one thing in your computer at a time such as the video card and the hard drive. Normally only one thing can be accessed through the bus at once. This for some things can make it considerably faster and for others make no real difference. This is why the FSB is not as good as the real bus. Take a look in your AMD Motherboard Bios it will list your clock speed (Or Bus Speed) as 100 if you have an original athlon of duron or 133 if you have an athlon xp or later athlon models. It may also list the fsb speed of the processor.
Ok what FSB does is divide information in half (Or 4 ways with the p4) and sends more than one command through at once at a slower speed and uses compression to make it seem like full speed on both commands. So with it you can talk to more than one thing in your computer at a time such as the video card and the hard drive. Normally only one thing can be accessed through the bus at once. This for some things can make it considerably faster and for others make no real difference. This is why the FSB is not as good as the real bus. Take a look in your AMD Motherboard Bios it will list your clock speed (Or Bus Speed) as 100 if you have an original athlon of duron or 133 if you have an athlon xp or later athlon models. It may also list the fsb speed of the processor.
To quote Mr Poppinfresh:
That *fwoosh* noise you hear was the onomatopoeia that accompanied my vital brainmeats ejecting themselves from their case shortly after reading your last post Mwarhead.
Your are actually becoming dumber through the life of this thread. YOU LOSE!
...
I HAVE SPILLED MY BRAINMEATS ON THE FLOOR!
That *fwoosh* noise you hear was the onomatopoeia that accompanied my vital brainmeats ejecting themselves from their case shortly after reading your last post Mwarhead.
Your are actually becoming dumber through the life of this thread. YOU LOSE!
...
I HAVE SPILLED MY BRAINMEATS ON THE FLOOR!
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hi dhkim. You should check out RVWinkle's links in order to get some definitions about FSB.
Also, there is a technical paper about Motherboards at Arstechnica, its tackles the FSB topic in an easy to understand manner.. You should read the whole article as well, since the topic is actually about choosing motherboards.
Arstechnica
If you're also interested at how CPU's achieve there internal clock speeds, check also the articles about phase-locked-loops (PLL)..
Also, there is a technical paper about Motherboards at Arstechnica, its tackles the FSB topic in an easy to understand manner.. You should read the whole article as well, since the topic is actually about choosing motherboards.
Arstechnica
If you're also interested at how CPU's achieve there internal clock speeds, check also the articles about phase-locked-loops (PLL)..
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