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[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]US relied on 'drunken liar' to justify war[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]'Crazy' Iraqi spy was full of misinformation, says report[/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif] Edward Helmore in New York
Sunday April 3, 2005
The Observer


[/font] [font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]An alcoholic cousin of an aide to Ahmed Chalabi has emerged as the key source in the US rationale for going to war in Iraq. [/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]According to a US presidential commission looking into pre-war intelligence failures, the basis for pivotal intelligence on Iraq's alleged biological weapons programmes and fleet of mobile labs was a spy described as 'crazy' by his intelligence handlers and a 'congenital liar' by his friends. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The defector, given the code-name Curveball by the CIA, has emerged as the central figure in the corruption of US intelligence estimates on Iraq. Despite considerable doubts over Curveball's credibility, his claims were included in the administration's case for war without caveat. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]According to the report, the failure of US spy agencies to scrutinise his claims are the 'primary reason' that they 'fundamentally misjudged the status of Iraq's [biological weapons] programs'. The catalogue of failures and the gullibility of US intelligence make for darkly comic reading, even by the standards of failure detailed in previous investigations. Of all the disproven pre-war weapons claims, from aluminium centrifuge tubes to yellow cake uranium from Niger, none points to greater levels of incompetence than those found within the misadventures of Curveball. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The Americans never had direct access to Curveball - he was controlled by the German intelligence services who passed his reports on to the Defence Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's spy agency. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Between January 2000 and September 2001, Curveball offered 100 reports, among them the claims of mobile biological weapons labs that were central in the US evidence of an illicit weapons programme, but subsequently turned out to be trucks equipped with machinery to make helium for weather balloons. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The commission concluded that Curveball's information was worse than none at all. 'Worse than having no human sources,' it said, 'is being seduced by a human source who is telling lies.' [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Although the defector has never been formally identified, it appears he was an Iraqi chemical engineer who defected after UN inspectors left the country in 1998. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]In the aftermath of the US-led invasion, Iraqis whom Curveball claimed were co-workers in Saddam's alleged biological weapons programme did not know who he was. He claimed he'd witnessed a deadly biological weapons accident when he was not even in Iraq when it was meant to have happened. After September 2001, his claims were given greater credibility despite the fact that he was not in Iraq at the time he claimed to have taken part in illicit weapons work. His information was central to an October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate that concluded Iraq 'has' biological weapons, and was widely used by President Bush and Dick Cheney to make their case for war. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]It now appears there were problems with Curveball from the start, but the intelligence community was willing to believe him 'because the tales he told were consistent with what they already believed.' [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]In May 2000 doubts about his credibility surfaced when he was examined for signs that he had been exposed to biological agents. While the results were inconclusive, a US official was surprised to find Curveball had a hangover and said he 'might be an alcoholic.' By early 2001, the Germans were having doubts of their own, telling the CIA their spy was 'out of control'. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]But warnings were dismissed. Intelligence analysts who voiced concern were 'forced to leave' the unit mainly responsible for analysing his claims, the commission found. At every turn analysts were blocked by spy chiefs and their warning never passed on to policy-makers. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The commission's report is unlikely to renew confidence in America's intelligence network as it attempts to uncover evidence of WMDs in Iran and elsewhere. The report concludes that US intelligence agencies remain poorly coordinated, have resisted reform and produce 'irrelevant' work. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]· Dozens of insurgents attacked Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad yesterday, detonating two suicide car bombs and firing rocket-propelled grenades at US forces before the assault was repelled. At least 20 US soldiers and 12 detainees were wounded in the fighting, which lasted around an hour. [/font]
Somehow I knew they would blame someone eventuaily
 

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Ok, but does it really come as a suprise to anybody that the White House wasn't being very picky about where it got it's information from? Considering that nearly every accusation they made about Iraq to justify to war has been disproven at this point, I would have a hard time believing the information came from someone reliable.

Now just for fun, let's sum up the success of the "War on Terror" at this point.

In America, a few people found to have ties with 9/11 were caught. That's all good and fine, but what about those sleeper cells the government supposidly found. Well out of hundreds of arrests made on suscpision of terrorist-like activities, not one single person was actually convicted due to lack of evidence. Not to mention the fact that we've wasted millions in bolstering our defences agaist terrorism when in reality the most that was probobly needed to fix things was a slight overhaul of the inteligence community. The problem was never that we weren't propared to deal with a 9/11 type attack. The problem was that people in the inteligence community ignored a large amount of evidence that suggested a terrorist plot, largely because of complacincy.

Strike one.

In Alfghanistan we went after the terrorists were they lived. Granted we got a few people that were proven to be ascociates of Osama Bin Laden, but the vast majority of our recources there were spent helping the Northern Alliance fight with islamic nationalists. The islamic nationalists weren't really interested in attacking the US by the way. That was purely Osama and his associates' plan, who were actually a small, loosely affiliated group of people with much less power then they have often been represented as having. No, the islamic nationalists were only concerned with the institution of an Islam based government in their own countries. In fact, most of them thought the idea of attacking the US was rather stuipid and pointless.

Strike two.

Then we have Iraq. It's hard to decide where to start on this one... We picked a fight with them on the grounds that they were supplying aid to terrorists and harboring weapons of mass destruction. But now we know that was a great big pile of BS. However, Bush and company somehow justify it because we're "spreading democracy". The weird part is, nobody would have accepted that as grounds for starting a war, and yet now that the war is already started everyone seems to be fine with it. Not only that, no matter how much the evidence increases that the Bush administation should have damn well known how little grounds for going to war with Iraq there was, there is a suprising lack of outrage against them. I guess as long as they aren't the ones getting chewed up by bullets in Iraq, people's complacincy extends to even matters like war. Well I'm sorry, but for me that's...

Strike three.

Now would someone please kick Bush out of office?
 

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Oh my god, like, who cares?! Xzyx987X, I know you've been holding that in for a long time now, but please keep it to yourself. It's very annoying.
Player-X said:
Somehow I knew they would blame someone eventuaily
Yeah, they're blaming themselves for knowingly trusting a faulty source.
The Observer said:
The report concludes that US intelligence agencies remain poorly coordinated, have resisted reform and produce 'irrelevant' work.
Haha, they call this news?
 

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i thought that you where talking about bush :p
 

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Knowledge is the solution
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Oh my god, like, who cares?! Xzyx987X, I know you've been holding that in for a long time now, but please keep it to yourself. It's very annoying.
Well... you know, this is a discussion board.. and... in a discussion board you are supposed to post your opinions. And like, he was on topic so I don't know what you are complaining at :p

PS: watzors, it's teh B0ltzmann!111 :p
 

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Meh, maybe I am beating a dead horse here. I just kinda got fired up about this mess all over again after watching a BBC ducumentery called The Power of Nighmares. I wish the American public at large could have a chance to see it because it has some bigger bombshells in in than even Fahrenheit 9/11, but it avoids being so over the top that people will immediately discredit it.

P.S. Yea, I've missed seeing Boltzmann too. He's acted as the voice of reason around here more times than I can count.
 

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Proto said:
Well... you know, this is a discussion board.. and... in a discussion board you are supposed to post your opinions. And like, he was on topic so I don't know what you are complaining at
Well... you know, this is a discussion board.. and... in a discussion board you are supposed to post your opinions. And like, I was on topic so I don't know what you are complaining at .

...

You hear that? It's the sound of the world's smallest violin playing.

...
Xzyx987X said:
I wish the American public at large could have a chance to see it because it has some bigger bombshells in in than even Fahrenheit 9/11
Fahrenheit 9/11 was full of crap. You'd think that if some really fat really rich socialist wanted to make a movie exposing whatever there is to be exposed, they'd do a better job than that half-baked propogandist stinky pile of crap that is Fahrenheit 9/11. Millions pumped and that was it?! As such I have no high hopes for your BBC documentary.

And here's a little tip from me to you: You'd be better off not favorably mentioning Fahrenheit in any debate ever. Nobody fares so well afterwards.
 

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I'll be the first to admit Fahrenheit 9/11 made some unreasonable accusations. Actually I never said anything in the film was true, just that The Power of Nightmares makes some even bigger accusations, and it backs them up with some solid evidance to boot. It's also packed with expert interviews and testimonies from both sides of the debate. I think if you watched it you'd have a hard time arguing that it's assesments are innacurate.
 

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Knowledge is the solution
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Well... you know, this is a discussion board.. and... in a discussion board you are supposed to post your opinions. And like, I was on topic so I don't know what you are complaining at .
Coercing others ability to expose their opinion goes beyond your own liberty. and beyond that, telling someone else to shut up isn't nice at all :p
 
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