Next Generation Emulation banner

Should ATI and Nvidia stop the graphics war?

  • Yes. Their high-end cards are becoming too rare

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • No. They should continue producing ultra-fast cards for the few

    Votes: 15 83.3%

  • Total voters
    18
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,338 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
http://www.tomshardware.com/business/20041018/index.html

It seems the graphics war between Nvidia and ATI has really strained the two companies. High-end cards such as the Radeon X800 XT PE and GeForce 6800 Ultra seem to be but vaporware, even half-way into their lifecycle. Aside from the few that appear from time to time they can't seem to keep up with the demand (and there isn't even that much demand for high-end anyways). Availability seems higher for lower-end cards but it still took me weeks to get my 6800 GT, and I had to get it from a supplier of exotic parts (who can only acquire a couple of 6800 cards per order). I went shopping for a 6800 a couple of months after their release but was surprised, and later frustrated at their unavailability (especially in Canada). ATI cards weren't as rare in Canada (there were some X800 Pros), but I still couldn't find an X800 XT anywhere. Others such as PC Canada haven't even gotten their 6800 Ultras, and it's way past their due date. I know Canada retailers aren't much priority but it's becoming pretty ridiculous.

I think it's about time they stopped the graphics war and put their focus back to the customer. High-end cards are nice for the company and do a lot for their mindshare but it's not so nice for customers who cannot acquire them. I know that they make most of their money from low- and mid-range cards but they should at least make sure they can fill the demand for their cards on all ranges. I think I'm lucky enough to have my card at all, considering the current situation.

So, what do you think? Should they stop the war and make all their products available or continue producing ultra high-end cards for a few lucky people to own?
 

·
CoLD InSiDE
Joined
·
2,615 Posts
Nah! the war should contineu, thats is what led to the release of 6800.
With this war they should consider maybe investing in a few more Manufacturing sites for their chips, to meet the demand. Neglecting potential sales is the biggest of all mistakes that a company can ever make.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,032 Posts
I think they should keep the war going, but I must admit the prices are outrageous. I bought my 9800pro when it was at full value and loved it. I will never do tha again mind you, unless I have a lot of money to burn.
 

·
Canadian Spaceman
Joined
·
8,767 Posts
I think its crazy, they should keep going but the prices are outragous. I love my 9600pro overclocked, but it was $279 CAD a little over a year ago. IMO well worth it, it got me through doom3 just fine and HL2 should be no problem and I dont see another upgrade from it for a long time :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
I dont really oppose the graphics war-it creates competition and therefore better products, but the price of the new high end cards is just downright ridiculus. Its why I havent upgraded yet, since I'd be spending all my money on the videocard and then the rest of my rig would be a bottleneck.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,032 Posts
I am gonna upgrade every 2-3 years, probably buying a high end card - but not one that's brand new and outrageous :p But if the war stops, in the end we get the crap end of the deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
I built my current rig in March 2003 and I will most likely upgrade in March 2005, by which time the new generation of cards should be out and the prices on the current one drop, hopefully to a level where I can pick up an athlon 64, but I doubt it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,032 Posts
Errrr? I don't get it. Graphics cards companies having a 'war' they are fighting over us to win us over to buy their cards, which means competitiveness that benifits us in the end and makes technology progress.

In this case war is good.
 

·
No People, No Problems
Joined
·
648 Posts
War brings revolution, in this case graphics revolution, if it would stop, wich i doubt it will, the industry would stagnate and **** would arize.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,338 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Uh, I don't think you guys understand. If you read the article, to get the current top-performing high-end cards from ATI and Nvidia you often times have to wait weeks or even months to acquire it, or spend days on the internet trying to find one. The GeForce 6800 Ultra was introduced in April and after 6 months it's still not available in retail channels here (aside from the few rare places and even they're running short). Now I understand that ATI cards are a lot more popular and available in Canada and there are a few X800 Pros popping up but the XT is still rare and the XT PE is virtually non-existent. Some retailers have even stated that ATI might have cancelled the XT PE cards, judging from their unavailability. I don't mind competition and all but it's getting plain ridiculous. At this rate we'll only be able to buy high-end cards at the next generation. The real issue here is vaporware. If companies are going to release products they should have them available immediately in the retail channel or shortly thereafter, not half a year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
I can see what you mean by lack of availability-a small town Texan like me can only get these card's off the internet, since the few comp stores around here dont carry them. But I dont have that kind of money to spend either so it really doesnt affect me any. I dont believe the graphics war is creating the shortage of cards, though I dont understand why there is shortage in the first place. Many people cant pay for them atm. Both companies need to increase production and lower prices, but that just aint going to happen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,032 Posts
OMG! You have to wait days? Well this isn't a new problem you know. I had to wait almost a month before my 9800pro could be shipped because no one had it. If you can afford one of those cards you can afford to wait ;)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,338 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I think THG summed it up best here:

Tom's Hardware Guide said:
However, we also believe that both companies are caught in a brutal competitive cycle and are starting to lose track of what is most important: the customer. It is simply impossible to sustain credibility if products are announced and heavily marketed, yet cannot be purchased even six months after the chips were advertised as "shipping in volume." It is not good enough for high-end graphic chips to first become available towards the middle of their life cycle.
I'm sure most than a few people were pissed off at Intel when their 1 Ghz Pentium 3 only become available in the retail channel several months after its supposed release. They cried foul, blasting Intel for a paper-launch and a paper-launch it was. Now we're seeing the same thing in the graphics industry, only it's worse. Of course I'm not saying they're impossible to get and a few of us do own them but neither companies are close to meeting their demand.

Razor Blade said:
OMG! You have to wait days? Well this isn't a new problem you know. I had to wait almost a month before my 9800pro could be shipped because no one had it. If you can afford one of those cards you can afford to wait ;)
Well there are always some shortages of high-end cards, especially upon release. I think that's pretty much expected, except that it's been some time since the current generation of cards were launched and they're still not even close to being widely available (it's actually about time Nvidia launched their next-gen products). Some analysts are actually expecting availablility to ramp up only by next year, or at the earliest, the end of this year.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,032 Posts
Well considering they were released in the 1st - 2nd quarters of this year it is a shame they aren't as availible as they should be. I will definately agree. Let's hope the next generation ones that come out won't hae this problem. I'm sure ATi and Nvidia are already discussing this anyways :) Word travels fast on the internet :p
 

·
band
Joined
·
4,912 Posts
although here in toronto its no longer a problem getting these cards, i must agree that these paper launches disguised as real launches are quite annoying. it seems like the buyers are just lending money without charging interest...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,241 Posts
The thing is, both nVidia and Ati have resorted to paperlaunching porducts.

which is very sad in my opinion, each trying to outdo one another in paper. the only ones who loose out is the enthusist and consumers in the end if this continues. A non existant product is the same as no product at all, aka vaporware.

The "war" should continue, but not like this.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,338 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Player-X said:
As far as I am concerned the war shoud continue, The longer the war the lower the prices of the cards
I don't know if that's true anymore. In fact, I believe the extreme competition between the two companies has actually created the opposite effect. As the companies try to outdo each other their products become too big and expensive to produce, production prices go up and so do prices of products. It's not about the consumer anymore. It's not about making prices cheaper or getting more market share. It seems all that matters now is besting each other and attaining the performance crown. I mean, just look at the current generation cards. They're over 200 million transistors in size (twice as much as the Athlon 64 and Prescott), require tons of ultra-fast RAM which can't be easily supplied (raising costs and lowering availability) and the 6800 Ultra even requires two molex connectors. They're using a pure brute force approach to try to create the fastest cards as possible to beat each other, draining huge amounts of resources from both companies. At this rate it'll eventually kill one or both of the companies.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,586 Posts
Well, all things considered, both ATi and Nvidia did announce that they will be lengthening their release schedule between generations of GPU's. No more 6 month cycle between cards. I agree that it's a bit dissappointing that both companies couldn't deliver on quantity, but I think the war between the 2 was good because it pushed them to do better and not just release the same old thing over and over.

I went to www.pricewatch.com and looked for an x800xtpe. The card isn't even listed there. YOu can find a few 6800 ultra's listed though, but only a few. Most people don't buy the high end cards anyways. The 6800gt/nu and x800pro seem to be readily available in retail stores.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top