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The Vodka Theme
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
"a horror movie"

*not for children*

Here is a video of whats happening in Israel, the video shows the pain and horror and with the life after it. from what i've seen many people support the palastinian because they are "tormented" and the Israeli gorvernment killes them for no reason and terrorizes them. well here is the truth! see there true faces and not what there prettending to be.
i trully hope you (who supports them) will change your mind and trully see who the palastinians are. If you wish i could disucss it.
Oh, and i repeat: not for children!

http://stage.co.il/media/largefiles/doribenisraelkario299562.wmv
 

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The Hunter
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Windows Media Player isn't able to find the file as is my download manager.
 

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<font color="#990000"><b>Lurking</b></font>
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If you are going to show the "truth", then you better show it well. The Isreali army is killing thousands who have NOTHING to do with this conflict and on the other hands, a few idiots are blowing themselves and killing civilians who have nothing to do with it either.

I just hate how each side shows how "ugly" the other is, because the "truth" is,....BOTH sides are ugly. The first generation of isreali is to blame though because they started the bloodshed when they occupied the land. Now the future generation is paying for it.

Yours,
-Elly
 

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He's watching you.
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i agree whit elly, why they dont show photos of the people that are killed daily on the palestinian side?
 

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I agree with Elly also, but the current status will not change untill Arafat is gone. Arafat has single handedly kept the violence going. He refuses to be resonable. Israel is willing to accept a Palestine state but Arafat still will not be reasonable....
 

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Araft is going to die soon, he has a serious illness, and I doubt he will recover from it. It's so serious, they flew him over to France because the doctors there are top-notch.
 

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The Hunter
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I agree with Elly as well, though here at home I can get in problems for saying so.... They are pro-Israel since in the bible it says that it's the land for jews...

I keep myself from choosing one side, because of Elly's arguments. Too bad my parents are a bit short-sighted....
 

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The Vodka Theme
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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
well.. let me just say that we dont kill for nothing (althoght there are exceptions, i admit). there are operations that take place in gaza. its not sloghter. all targets are activists of the Hamas and others. thousands dont die. you may say that the media lies to us but same number reports are given from arabian station. and the numbers dont add up to thousands!
and i can tell you from first hand (since a solder that i know has served there until recently) that no horrible things go on there.

And Ally.. with all do respect if you dont know the hestory of the rigion then dont say things you dont know. arabian bands started the blodshed in the mid 30's and was blocked by the jews that have lived here. side note: the jews hired the arabians and there was an understanding between them (all of them because vertually all arabians across palastin were hired by jews). and why did the jews have permition to live here? the otomanian empire has allowed it. the arabians that lived there were mearly a bunch of wonderrers. and the jews were declared sitizen. so in 1948 when the world recognized israel as a contry they started the war. not us.

Maybe you learned about the history of this rigion. i dont know. but here is what i have learned and what i go through every day.

edit: by the way. the fact that the army only killes hamas activists makes me so sad that i have no choise by saying that. beleave me that i would have made this pease of ground flat. all the world may not recognize it, but this is war!
 

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Retired
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A miracle has happened. I agree with Elly on this topic. His opinion is very similar to my own when it comes to this conflict :)
 

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The Hunter
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Never knew you believed in miracles :rolleyes:
 

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>one more thing to add. do you side with el-kiyda?

It's Al-Queda.
From what I have seen, neither side is clean. War is a dirty thing, especialy a war fought mostly with guerrilla tactics.
 

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I agree with Elly as well. There is much more going on beyond the Palenstinian suicide bombers.

This is the sad, horrible truth of war; and it happens on both sides of the conflict.

And I wish people would stop using Clint Mansell's wonderful work in these kinds of films.
 

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>> Never knew you believed in miracles
The atheist term for miracle is "Extremly improbable event" ;p

Back on topic... I also agree with Elly on that :I
 

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ArchIBaLD said:
one more thing to add. do you side with el-kiyda? because its basacly the same thing.
No. Terrorism is a tool or means to achieve a specific political goal. Whether or not you agree with the aims of Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., their primary goal is eject Israel from the region. Al Qaida's (Queda or whatever spelling suits you) primary goal is to stop all American influence - politically and socially - from the Middle East. I have not seen any member from Hamas, Hezbollah, or the Palestinians actively participating in terrorist acts against the U.S. beyond the usual rhetoric and condemnation towards U.S. support of Israel.
 

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<font color="#990000"><b>Lurking</b></font>
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ArchIBaLD said:
well.. let me just say that we dont kill for nothing (althoght there are exceptions, i admit). there are operations that take place in gaza. its not sloghter. all targets are activists of the Hamas and others. thousands dont die. you may say that the media lies to us but same number reports are given from arabian station. and the numbers dont add up to thousands!
From an article dated a year ago
In 33 months of Middle East violence, 2,414 people have been killed on the Palestinian side and 806 on the Israeli side.
,

Palastenians estimate the figures to be around :
The total number of Palestinians killed by the Israeli army in the past 19 months is estimated to be 1,700 at least – it is impossible to be certain. The numbers of injured are reckoned to be at 34,000.

All targets are terrorists huh? I mean, the isreali army never killed anyone innocent before, I am sure The dead palastenian children agree with you.

ArchIBald said:
And Ally.. with all do respect if you dont know the hestory of the rigion then dont say things you dont know. arabian bands started the blodshed in the mid 30's and was blocked by the jews that have lived here. side note: the jews hired the arabians and there was an understanding between them (all of them because vertually all arabians across palastin were hired by jews). and why did the jews have permition to live here? the otomanian empire has allowed it. the arabians that lived there were mearly a bunch of wonderrers. and the jews were declared sitizen. so in 1948 when the world recognized israel as a contry they started the war. not us.
Wrong. I am fully aware of the history of the reigon. This is NOT a jewish vs muslim conflict, This is a conflict over land and revenge. Jews have been living side by side with muslims before the britsh invasion as you stated, there are even jewish arabs who live in Syria, Eygpt and Iraq till today. The bloodshed started when Britain decided to give the land to the Zionist jews in Europe, who came in and kicked the palastenians from their own homes and commited the worse crimes in the history of that conflict ( during 1948). Until today, those refugees belong to no where, scattered in the lands of Eygpt, Jordan and Lebanon, without an Identity,or the right to return back to their native lands.

Major wars broke up several times between the arabs and israel in years 1948,1967,and 1971, ending up with a peace treaty with eygpt ( with eventually lead to the assisnation of the Egyptian president Anwar Al Sadat by an extremist movement in the begining 1980's), a war in Lebanon and an outbreak between the palastenians and israel.

ArchiBLad said:
edit: by the way. the fact that the army only killes hamas activists makes me so sad that i have no choise by saying that. beleave me that i would have made this pease of ground flat. all the world may not recognize it, but this is war!
No they don't. They DO kill innocents as well. They even arrest/kill/destroy the house of a suicider's relatives even if they had nothing to do with what he did.

And as a side note, No I am not from Al Queda :rolleyes: I fully sympathise with the israeli victims who are killed from time to time just like how I fell sorry for the palastenians who are killed without a reason too. But it REALLY iritates me to see one side of the conflict trying to make the other look "evul" while he being the "innocent lamb" ( Yes, that includes palastenians themselves).

edit : /me bookmarks this thread,...people actually agree with me, ( including,...yikes! .....Boltzmann ! :D )

Yours,
-Elly
 

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Knowledge is the solution
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Just to further freak out Elly, I have to accept I agree with him as well (/me shivers)

The only good guys in wars are the ones that end up winning and writing the history books.
 

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The Vodka Theme
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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
first of all.. the number probabably dated before the outbrake (cant say that im right.. i'm also depended on the media). the army killes innocents palastinians?

>> They even arrest/kill/destroy the house of a suicider's relatives even if they had nothing to do with what he did.

wrong. really wrong. they arrest the future suesiders (because there relations to the hamas/hizballa) and arrest the family only because of suspition to there relations to the orgonization (witch is common by the way) and the DO release them if they have no prufe or they are clean (that's how we are democratic, unfortenetly).

>>I fell sorry for the palastenians who are killed without a reason too

wrong again. the israely government has taken the strategy (as i stated) of focus killes. only activists with no unnecessery death by "peacfull" "sitizen". if there are deaths (and there are.. i dont deny it) then it's eather by mistake or a hatred act.
and let me tell you one more thing! the activists kill the members of other groups! and the firing between the israely soldiers and the arabs has caused deaths of peacfull arabs. more then israelies (maybe i'm wrong.. but from the media\my friend thats what it is). oh, and houses are destroyd because soldiars find bomb labs in them (want pics?)


>>This is NOT a jewish vs muslim conflict

belive it or not but that's what it has become (parteally)

>>bloodshed started when Britain decided to give the land to the Zionist jews in Europe, who came in and kicked the palastenians from their own homes and commited the worse crimes in the history of that conflict

That's just makes me mad!! you trully dont know what has been here. first of all:
the arabs and the jews (before and after 1948) had designated areas that were set by bretain and later by the UN (and the arabs had more territory.. not that it matters).
no aggresive ections were made by israel.
and from what homes did they kick the arabs?! the fact that we destroyed there homes was becuse we were at WAR! what are we?! the red cross? (bad analogy but watever). i really would like you to understand it: we did not start it! nor we continue it and we dont kill innocent people!

>>and commited the worse crimes in the history of that conflict

witch are..?

>>Originally Posted by ArchiBLad

are you trying to indicate something?
 
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