[Princess Garnet]

I came across this on Xtreme Systems. It's an article about RMAs (note that RMAs don't directly equal failures). I don't know the procedure or whatnot on this, so take everything with a grain of salt, but the numbers are interesting.

Les taux de pannes des composants (page 1: Introduction) - HardWare.fr

Here it is translated via Google.

Google Translate

 

[bkwegoharder]

and people were saying that Antec had high failure rates on their psus, I knew that sounded like BS, they have lower failure rates than even corsair. I'm also surprised by the high failure rates for Crucial and corsair memory.

 

[Squall-Leonhart]

uh..... lol.

Antec PSU's are in ALOT of systems. the majority of people who have a system fail replace the entire system, rather then the psu which is the usual failure point. Add 25% to Antec's fail rate.

 

[gamefreak94]

Hey Cid, Hiper's got the highest RMA rate

Anyway, I'm surprised ThermalTake's rate is so high, considering that it is widely accepted as the second-best PSU manufacturer right after Corsair. And I thought SeaSonic was a cheap brand with no-good PSUs oO

Not surprised to see Kingston is far more reliable then even Corsair, all our PCs, from the current one, right down to the Pentium II Celeron 12 years ago, have always had Kingston RAM and with the exception of one 512MB DDR module, none have ever failed.

 

[bkwegoharder]

uh..... lol.

Antec PSU's are in ALOT of systems. the majority of people who have a system fail replace the entire system, rather then the psu which is the usual failure point. Add 25% to Antec's fail rate.

I haven't seen any numbers proving anything about antec psus being bad, while I have seen numbers saying the exact opposite.

Hey Cid, Hiper's got the highest RMA rate

Anyway, I'm surprised ThermalTake's rate is so high, considering that it is widely accepted as the second-best PSU manufacturer right after Corsair. And I thought SeaSonic was a cheap brand with no-good PSUs

WTF? I heard almost the exact opposite with ThermalTake being no good for most of their psus and only having a few select good lines. And that PC Power and Cooling were actually the best and not Corsair even though Corsair is a very good brand. I also thought that Seasonic was known for good psus

 

[gamefreak94]

ThermalTake's ToughPower series has positive feedback all round.

 

[StriderVM]

Maybe there's another thing.......

RMA is basically returning the product for a replacement.

I'm thinking that some people who are not computer savvy basically just buy new hardware when the old ones go bust, but people who are knowledgable will RMA the product if it is possible, which could explain the high RMA rate of certain popular brands.

Since most newbies will not RMA poor-quality stuff.

 

[Squall-Leonhart]

you must make the pilgrimage to bapcaps forums.

Maybe there's another thing.......

RMA is basically returning the product for a replacement.

I'm thinking that some people who are not computer savvy basically just buy new hardware when the old ones go bust, but people who are knowledgable will RMA the product if it is possible, which could explain the high RMA rate of certain popular brands.

Since most newbies will not RMA poor-quality stuff.

haha, actually when a psu goes the tech savvy guys get a electrical engineer to replace the caps if possible.
if not they dump the pos and buy a psu from a different company.

 

[bkwegoharder]

Most techsavvy guys get too caught up into brand loyalty.

 

[gamefreak94]

There's a degree of bias towards a certain brand in everyone. It's natural.

 

[Squall-Leonhart]

Most techsavvy guys get too caught up into brand loyalty.

until they get burnt and dig for information.

 

[Princess Garnet]

Hey Cid, Hiper's got the highest RMA rate

Anyway, I'm surprised ThermalTake's rate is so high, considering that it is widely accepted as the second-best PSU manufacturer right after Corsair. And I thought SeaSonic was a cheap brand with no-good PSUs oO

You guys think Hiper is really good and that Thermaltake is the second best!? I get the feeling alot of people are not so versed in PSUs. Have it know that Thermaltake is not as "widely accepted" as you think. Read around some. I'd recommend starting Jonny Guru's website well over the advice given by anyone (that includes me) here on this one. PSUs are probably the one component where brand matters a whole lot less than any other component, so it really makes me laugh when people say "Antec sucks" ourtight, when the Antec Signature PSU is basically better than anything Thermaltake (easily) or maybe even Corsair has. I'm not so sure I'd even consider Corsair the best. I'm sure what Squall says about capacitors is perhaps true, but it's not as bad as he seems to let it on to be.

WTF? I heard almost the exact opposite with ThermalTake being no good for most of their psus and only having a few select good lines. And that PC Power and Cooling were actually the best and not Corsair even though Corsair is a very good brand. I also thought that Seasonic was known for good psus

At least someone knows. They're (Thermaltake's) lineup is so all over place that they're both bad, average, and good (but not very bad nor very good) all at once.

I wouldn't say PC Power & Cooling is the best (it's really hard to define an entire brand as best when it comes to PSUs), but it's at least up there with Corsair.

Anyway, remember, these numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt. It's obviously not all encompassing or 100% reflective based on certain things I'd imagine, but they do give you an idea.

 

[Squall-Leonhart]

I'm sure what Squall says about capacitors is perhaps true, but it's not as bad as he seems to let it on to be.

Antec's former failure rate was 60% atleast, and that was in the highend PSU's, within 18 months of purchase date.

 

[Princess Garnet]

I presume the capacitor incident was to blame? If that's all, then I stand by my statement that you're making it out as more than it is. If capacitors were the reason, and it was only for the high end PSUs, then it's very possible and much more likely that 60% was a real number, but then again, as I'm saying, that is not an actual reflection of either Antec's failure rate nor their quality level.

I wouldn't consider bad capacitors entirely Antec's fault, at least not to the point to where you can say outright that their PSUs are of bad quality and "they suck" like you seem to. As you know, capacitors aren't something that they manufacture themself. They get them in through a supplier, and if those are failing, it's said suppliers fault. Don't blame Antec simply for a rash of failures happening. Many companies went through that due to capacitors being poor, including ASUS, Gigabyte, Dell, HP, Intel, Foxconn, and even GPUs and televisions. By time anyone found out, it was already too late/already happened.

Seriously, people think that Seasonic is a cheap brand? That Thermaltake is the second best? That Antec is all bad? That Hiper is really good? Where are you guys getting your information from? Do read some reviews from the people who know what they're talking about rather than biased claims of "this brand is good and that brand is bad".

 

[n_w95482]

I have a 430w Antec from before the capacitor incident (got it in 2003) and it's still going strong with 24/7 usage. The cap issue was pretty bad but it was a while ago and if they've made real efforts to improve the quality and reliability of their current models, I'd say they're worth buying again.

I also agree with Seasonic not being cheap. My M12D sure as hell wasn't cheap when I bought it and I've been very pleased with its performance. The high efficiency is very nice when my machine stays on all the time folding .

 

[Squall-Leonhart]

I presume the capacitor incident was to blame? If that's all, then I stand by my statement that you're making it out as more than it is. If capacitors were the reason, and it was only for the high end PSUs, then it's very possible and much more likely that 60% was a real number, but then again, as I'm saying, that is not an actual reflection of either Antec's failure rate nor their quality level.

I wouldn't consider bad capacitors entirely Antec's fault, at least not to the point to where you can say outright that their PSUs are of bad quality and "they suck" like you seem to. As you know, capacitors aren't something that they manufacture themself. They get them in through a supplier, and if those are failing, it's said suppliers fault. Don't blame Antec simply for a rash of failures happening. Many companies went through that due to capacitors being poor, including ASUS, Gigabyte, Dell, HP, Intel, Foxconn, and even GPUs and televisions. By time anyone found out, it was already too late/already happened.

Seriously, people think that Seasonic is a cheap brand? That Thermaltake is the second best? That Antec is all bad? That Hiper is really good? Where are you guys getting your information from? Do read some reviews from the people who know what they're talking about rather than biased claims of "this brand is good and that brand is bad".

It was more the fact that Antec Reps were trolling forums and blaming the users for the incidents, rather then taking the blame and fixing the issue.

 

[Princess Garnet]

So maybe they have lousy PR? What does that have to do with the statements that you've been saying about their PSUs themselves being bad, and that their PSUs will take out any PC they're put into? They're no Seasonic, PC Power & Cooling, or Corsair, and I'd maybe even say Foxconn is better (but Foxconn is pretty good too), but they're far from that bad. I'd just say they're like Thermaltake where they're so far all over the place, that they're pretty much everything save very bad or very good.

If you had a PSU go bad and/or experienced their representatives doing such things, then dislike them if you will. I'm not trying to change your opinion about them, but you're basically spreading false things by saying their PSUs are much worse than they really are, and from what other users (gamefreak94 is an example) are saying about how good/bad most PSU brands typically are, I don't think they need any more false information. You're much smarter than that.

 

[Princess Garnet]

Also, as per the memory RMA rates, I notice the rates were lower on the "value" segment RAM. The review says that rates increased if they took the "value" type RAM out of the equation. RAM rates are pretty high all around (not a good thing), but one must wonder how many are returned not necessarily due only to bad quality, but due to being burnt out. Higher end RAM is often overclocked. I'm sure RAM itself is a type of component that will naturally be a little higher than others (along with maybe motherboards), but one must wonder.

I also noticed Corsair is pretty high, as is Crucial (which, as far as I know, isn't really a high end player, so that's bad for them when most people look at them as no fills, reliable, and stable). I had some unconscious feeling that Corsair had high return rates though (incompatibilities with boards, errors, etc.), but at least it helps that they appear to have a good and easy RMA process. I'd better watch my RAM. I have two kits that appear to be on that list at 5.2% (mine isn't the "DHX" version with the better looking heatspreader, but if that's all that's different, it's basically the same stuff). My old second PC that I sold to my friend has OCZ in it, and that's even worse. If it starts acting funky, I'll check that first. The ever overlooked (and sometimes disliked) Kingston fared pretty well though. I'll have to look at them when I go DDR3.

 

[Cid Highwind]

Hey Cid, Hiper's got the highest RMA rate

Never trust a PCSX2 coder

Anyway, I based my purchase on recommendations here, so far it's been working rather fine in my PC for about 4 years now. It's quiet and has no problem powering my 4870. Besides, I have a different model, I think that's from the budget range. That said, I wouldn't buy this brand again, unless they'd have a really good one again. It all depends what's best to buy at that moment

You guys think Hiper is really good and that Thermaltake is the second best!? I get the feeling alot of people are not so versed in PSUs. Have it know that Thermaltake is not as "widely accepted" as you think. Read around some. I'd recommend starting Jonny Guru's website well over the advice given by anyone (that includes me) here on this one.

Yeah, good point. It's kinda hard in a not so transparent market, where reviews are based on software results shown in graphs, rather than the sites opening to see what components the PSU's are made of. Of course there's exceptions. I think I read some rather reputable reviews about my PSU, and while it certainly wasn't the most efficient or groundbreaking model, it wasn't a bad PSU either. I have no reason not to trust if.


Edit
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=16
Found it

 

[Phil]

All hardware is subject to failure. If you take care of your hardware properly (keeping it well ventilated, tuned and so forth) the possibility of failure is often less then 5 %. I have to procees returns for my job, and I can tell you now that 95% of retrurned electronics WORK. People just do not know how to use them, and do not care to know. For example, some Sony TV's require that you set up the OS to search for digital channels. You know how many get returned to me over customers saying (It cant change the channel, it wont work)?

Another problem is the HDMI ports. if there is alot of dust (or any ferrous particles) the you will not get sound and will have a jumpy picture because of the wires shorting the charge.

Just take care of your stuff, and you shouldn't have a problem.