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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Rayman plays track 02 at the Ubisoft logo - when run from the CD, it plays 9-sec of audio + 2-sec of silence (I timed this).

When playing from the ISO, it plays 7-sec of audio and cuts the last 2-sec (if you listen carefully, you'll hear the cutoff).

This happens for all tracks apparently.

CDMage reports that track 02 should be 11-sec long (well 11:25 to be picky). You'll hear the difference between 'Run ISO' and CDMage ('Run CDROM')

Code:
FILE "rayman.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 09:17:60
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 09:29:10
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 10:38:43
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 11:45:71
Code:
 * Loading ISO Format [MDF/BIN/IMG2352] ok
 * Track 1: (DATA)  - Start 1: (00,02,00) -  Length 09:13
 * Track 2: (AUDIO) - Start 2: (09,19,60) -  Length 00:07 <--- This should be at least 00:09 (or +2 sec pregap = 00:11)
 * Track 3: (AUDIO) - Start 3: (09,31,10) -  Length 01:05 <--- This should be at least 01:07 (or +2 sec pregap = 01:09)
 * Track 4: (AUDIO) - Start 4: (10,40,43) -  Length 01:03 (..)
(..)
 * Track 49: (AUDIO) - Start 49: (56,24,13) -  Length 00:36
 * Track 50: (AUDIO) - Start 50: (57,04,21) -  Length 00:39
 * Track 51: (AUDIO) - Start 51: (57,47,47) -  Length 00:31 <--- Still 2 seconds cut
Code:
 * Init Core W2k cdrom ... [E] ok
 * Track 1: (DATA)  - Start 0: (00,02,00) -  Length 09:17
 * Track 2: (AUDIO) - Start 1: (09,19,60) -  Length 00:11 (Plays 00:09 data + 2-sec blank pregap of track 03)
 * Track 3: (AUDIO) - Start 2: (09,31,10) -  Length 01:09
 * Track 4: (AUDIO) - Start 3: (10,40,43) -  Length 01:07
 * Track 5: (AUDIO) - Start 4: (11,47,71) -  Length 01:05
(..)
 * Track 49: (AUDIO) - Start 48: (56,24,13) -  Length 00:40
 * Track 50: (AUDIO) - Start 49: (57,04,21) -  Length 00:43
 * Track 51: (AUDIO) - Start 50: (57,47,47) -  Length 00:33 <-- This is the real length of track 51 (no blank data played)

More notably, this shows that track 02 has 9:25-sec of data (with a 2-sec pregap - look at the final track time and compare it to the final image time of 58:20:69)

Code:
 917E- 9814 [US_DEMO.STR] [8:18.46 - 8:41.7]
 9815- A23B [US_WIN.STR] [8:41.8 - 9:15.56]
Track 01: 4 sector post-block (?)
Track 01: 2-sec postgap (?)

Track 02: 2-sec pregap
 A36B- A626 [GENE.RAW] [9:19.60 - 9:29.9]

Track 03: 2-sec pregap (A627-A6BC = $96 = 150 sectors)
 A6BD- BA7E [JUNGLE1.RAW] [9:31.10 - 10:38.42]

Track 04: 2-sec pregap
 BB15- CE3B [JUNGLE2.RAW] [10:40.43 - 11:45.70]

Track 05: 2-sec pregap
 CED2- E15E [JUNMOS2.RAW] [11:47.71 - 12:51.19]
 E1F5- E9A8 [JUNMOSB.RAW] [12:53.20 - 13:19.41]
 EA3F- FEAD [JUNMOST.RAW] [13:21.42 - 14:31.22]
 FF44-110AB [JUN_AMB.RAW] [14:33.23 - 15:32.53]
(..)
3DEDF-3EA08 [GAT_AMB.RAW] [56:24.13 - 57:2.20]
3EA9F-3F6BB [GAMEOV.RAW] [57:4.21 - 57:45.46]
3F752-40112 [REPLAY.RAW] [57:47.47 - 58:20.68]
I'm not sure if it's truly a bug - maybe the devs wrote this part intentionally. ^^

To summarize though, Run ISO should add at least 2-seconds to each track to play the full audio correctly.

I've attached my full logs in case I'm going barmy. o_o
 

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Don't use the Bin format, Going by PSX Authors explanation of it, the format does not provide accurate Audio cues, which is why games like Tomb Raider freeze on epsxe/psx when they are in the Bin/Cue format.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Tried the ccd/img approach - get the same times as bin/cue. 2-second cutoff.

I ripped apart the bin/cue and resized/repositioned each audio track to match redump.org version:
USA (*)
Europe
Europe Alt.

Same problem though. Daemon Tools plays 11-seconds when using this 'certified' version.

Somehow maybe it's just me though. :lol::dead:
At least the CD works. :yay:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Debugged 1.7.0 and found two bugs with 'Run ISO'

1) When printing the track lengths, the devs +2-sec for the true cdrom START time (m:s:f). They don't add 2-sec to the END time when computing the LENGTH (currently does LBA - msf) instead of (msf - msf). So we're missing 2 seconds.

2) The audio cuts 2 seconds short. They forgot to add 2-seconds to the m:s:f calculation on when to stop the track.

(see cdda_fix.txt)

Tested with a quick hack and the Ubisoft logo plays the whole 9 seconds.
 

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@shalma
Please try the following... and then report back which of the 2 solved the problem or not.
Code:
1.)
FILE "rayman.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 09:15:60
    INDEX 01 09:17:60
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 09:27:10
    INDEX 01 09:29:10
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 10:36:43
    INDEX 01 10:38:43
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 11:43:71
    INDEX 01 11:45:71
Code:
2.)
FILE "rayman.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 09:17:60
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 09:29:10
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 10:38:43
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 11:45:71
Note:
CDMage supports both methods.
ISOBuster none of them.
ePSXe CDR ISO plugins... I dont' know for sure.

So please report back if one helps and with what plugin.

EDIT:
DeamonTools supports "PREGAP" too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Run ISO
1) Plays first 7 seconds, cuts last 2 seconds
2) Cuts first 2 seconds, plays last 7 seconds

EDIT: Accurately timed this and Daemon Tools 4.30.3 plays actually 9 seconds for (1). Not 11 as some older version did. (2) plays 11 seconds with this version.


I was recently told to rip apart the tracks and manually remove the 2-second pregaps from tracks 2-51. Then rebuild the image and play from Daemon Tools (11 -> 9 seconds) or Run ISO (?).

Out of curiosity, I'll try this out maybe today or later in the week.


EDIT:
Run ISO plays the 9 seconds with this file. Up to the last track, which cuts 2 seconds again (unless I add 2 postgap seconds).

Code:
FILE "rayman.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE2/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 09:15:60
    INDEX 01 09:17:60
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 09:29:10
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 10:38:43
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 11:45:71
(..)
Daemon Tools then plays 11 seconds for Track 02 - which I guess is technically correct because of the Track 03 PREGAP.

Thanks for pointing that out.
 

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Tyrant
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Sorry, I don't have Rayman, so I am not able to test it myself.
With only WipEout at my hands for testing I can't give bullet-proof results.

Rayman plays track 02 at the Ubisoft logo - when run from the CD, it plays 9-sec of audio + 2-sec of silence (I timed this).
Therefore 11 sec total should be correct.

Concluding from this... test (2) mounted in DeamonTools works like the original CD then?
This would be great.

And please... if you could tell which CDR plugin you used for testing.
There are:
- mooby2 cd disk image driver v2.8
- ePSEXe CDR WNT/W2K core 1.7.0
- ePSEXe CDR ASPI core 1.7.0
...for example.

This info could help some others having trouble with images containing audio-tracks, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Asked the wife to test this on her computer and drive - hers produces more reliable CD reading than mine.

It should play from T02 INDEX 01 --> T03 INDEX 01
Track 02 = 9 sec + 2 sec pregap (T03)

(CD) Media Player: T02 = 11 sec
(Daemon) Media Player: T02 = 11 sec

(CD) ePSXe + sapu CDR 13 + eternal SPU 15: T02 ~ 10-11 sec
(Daemon) ePSXe + sapu CDR 13 + eternal SPU 15: T02 ~ 10-11 sec
(I think it sounds a little short compared to Media Player, maybe not though)

(CD) ePSXe + internal CDR 170 WNT/W2K + internal SPU: T02 ~ 9 sec
(Daemon) ePSXe + internal CDR + internal SPU: T02 ~ 9 sec
(sapu + eternal lasts longer)

(ISO) ePSXe + internal SPU 170: T02 ~ 7 sec
(Cuts off the bing)

(CD) pSX: T02 = 11+? sec
(Daemon) pSX: T02 = 11+? sec
(ISO) pSX: T02 = 11+? sec
(Sounds like it plays a fraction of Track 03. Doesn't always happen though)


Tested the PREGAP stuff with Track 03 (something I didn't try earlier) aka Level 1
- Track starts playing then cuts off (hard stop) (pSX too)
- Game is very peculiar about the track timings (they're hard-coded I think)
- Seems to like my original times


I'm not so sure about the timings anymore - my earlier method proved a little off for accuracy. :/

This is such a headache. xx(

I've hacked my ePSXe_dvd5 to play an extra 2 seconds of ISO CDDA so I personally don't mind (v5 not released yet).


The PREGAP stuff did break the game though later. :eek:
 

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Tyrant
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shalma said:
The PREGAP stuff did break the game though later. :eek:
This is disapointing, indeed.

You could try Mooby's CDR. NO, not to make you the tester for all & everything.
It's the one I still use today with ePSXe v1.7 and .bin files.
(yes, it's told to be no longer supported, but...)
I never realized any problems with Mooby's CDR, maybe because I don't have any problematic games... maybe I am to inattentively .

I really hope for you that this one works a little better than sapu's (which isn't supported any longer, too AFAIK)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Thanks for the suggestion.

Played with Mooby some but all I've gotten is 'static'.
EDIT: Forgot to use Eternal SPU. Now plays 9-sec data.

(Download FrogASPI and rename to wnaspi32.dll, place with ePSXe)
ePSXe internal ASPI 170:
- Same times as the 2K/NT internal

That about completes the plugins list. :D
 

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Tyrant
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Played with Mooby some... Now plays 9-sec data.
Sounds acceptable (the +2 sec were silence anyway...hehe) as long as the game runs without any more trouble.

One last question though...
Did you use the standard ISOBuster .cue or one of the others we were talking about?
I am just asking, because if anyone else is searching for a solution should be able to find it in this thread.
And Mooby's looks like one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Couldn't agree more - I don't miss the silence. :)

The ISOBuster one (only has INDEX 01). Worked okay.

Also did the CloneCD one (has INDEX 00 / INDEX 01). Worked okay.

I think the Blindwrite one gave me problems (PREGAPs and some tracks were off by several fractions in some spots).
 
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