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Crazy GFX coder
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I've disliked Anita for a while - back when she talked about movies instead of video games - but accusing the game of being political because she was a consultant is making a leap.
If Ellie tells the players: "Be gay, do crime" then that's for sure the game and the story being political.
But if someone who's never heard of Anita plays the game, doesn't notice any political content, and doesn't see anything about her, it seems like the game succeeded in walking the balance of "deliver a story with a message, but don't be obnoxious about it". And that's what we've asked writers to do: to make something meaningful, without being annoying or forceful about it.

There's also two things I find strange. Usually, when people are mad at a game, this is how it goes:
1) First, people play the game. Then, people are mad.
2) Then, we get clear complaints of what people were mad about. There's little doubt about what people hated about Arkham Knight or No Man's Sky. We have clear concepts, clear complaints.
The drama doesn't change on the daily, people raise up similar and consistent points.

For TLOU2, things are strangely different:
1) First, people were mad long before the game released.
2) Then, we get fluctuating complaints, with the subject of the drama changing over the week.

This seems weird to me. It makes it seem like some people were already mad and went on a hunt for something to take their anger on.
This doesn't mean that people CAN'T dislike the game, or be disappointed by it. I think you're being honest with your own personal view and impression of the game.
I'm just weary of some of the stuff I'm seeing online, as some of it stinks. Some of the drama seems to be people searching for a outlet to vent, for something to be angry it, rather than an actual discussion about a video game.


Something else I'm wondering: should this discussion be moved to its own separate topic? If people are truly interested in discussing what works and what doesn't work about the game, it might be easier to follow the subject if it gets its own topic. It's a bit difficult to share other news in this thread with this conversation going on.
I think you misunderstood my actual response on the matter(I expressed myself wrong most probably). I wasn't saying the game is sending some political messages and if you remember all of my posts at the start of the discussion never had a word about it but always about the story. What I was saying is that's how people seem to see it as a response to Nightmare's FB comment and as I pointed out she seems to be one of the reasons for the hate while the story seems to be the biggest problem.

As for what you explained how it should normally be that's correct and in the case of TLOU 2 is different. You have to remember that the whole story got leaked long ago and while me and you didn't watched to avoid spoilers many people actually did. However, many come from different backgrounds and you have this different types:

  • Hate towards Anita and her role in the game
  • Dislike the Story but like the game (i'm one of those)
  • Hate towards ND and Sony after being their target for posting memes
  • The regular hater and SJW
  • Anti-Feminists / Homosexuality haters
  • Hate generated by the crunch news
Also a point I didn't included is how Neil and some others went on social media looking for plain hate trying to put more fire in the flames such as the one below while completely ignoring the real user score behind those numbers:

 

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Crazy GFX coder
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Two new DC games might be coming:
1) Batman Gotham Knights - from WB Montreal.
2) Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League - from Rocksteady.
I heard about it and I can't wait for those to be revealed BUT isn't WB selling all their game divisions?

Mixer will be closing and transfering their streamers to Facebook Gaming. Theyve previously paid big money to get popular streamers on Mixer, but it didnt seem to work well enough, and theyre now working with Facebook on a new plan. Facebook will do the streaming and Microsoft will advertise project xcloud for people interested in playing the games being shown.

The announcement was probably made earlier than anticipated since Mixer just got exposed for being managed by assholes. Many Mixer streamers had decided to stop streaming until Microsoft adressed news that the managers werent just dicks to their employees but were also secretly dicks to the streamers themselves, seeing them as nothing more than money making objects. The streamers didnt really enjoy that.

Phil Spencer, to his credit, seemed to react very quickly and made appointments with various people who came forward with their stories, but it seems like Microsoft was already planning to get rid of Mixer. It might be easier to wash their hands of this mess, and of the managers, if Mixer wont exist anymore either way.

(Somehow I dont expect Facebook to treat people better.)

MS just keep investing in way too many things at once and I understand why they do that but at the same time they keep shooting themselves in the foot. MS don't seem to believe in their own stuff and if it doesn't stick they just throw it away. From a business standpoint its all clear but I don't know if is good for the company's image.

IMO such constant moves destroy confidence in the company when it comes to partnerships.
 

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Crazy GFX coder
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So next they'll axe the movie service?
They may as well axe everything. MS hasn't learned from their mistakes and I do understand they need to have their nose everywhere but why not focus in certain things and "GitGud" at it and then move the next one? they constantly start doing all kind of experiments and throw tons of money at it then let the axe fall on them....

That's not how you gain consumer trust but destroy your image!
 

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I don't think any of the 3 console makers learn from their mistakes or think anyone cares if they jarate all over their customers.

Microsoft drops stuff all the time, which makes me wonder how long backwards compatibility will last on their consoles or if there will even be games to buy or just a streaming service where games can be removed at any time for any reason and its just infinite rentals.

Sony likes to pander to man hating feminists and censor happy people watering down or refusing to sell games as is, while it doesn't mean as much to me, I haven't purchased Sony hardware since the Vita.

Nintendo can't get into the present and made a console people use as a portable, can't care less about backwards compatibility, have discussed leaving the console industry, are tying digital rentals via online which isn't all that great to begin with, they think if Sony and Microsoft can jarate on customers, they can as well.
 

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I just wanted to clarify when I criticize a game, or don't like it, I'm not trying to influence anyone else regarding the game. I have friends who like games I don't like and I like games many people wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. I get into trouble with my sweetie over some games I own.

So just because I don't like The last of us or it's sequel doesn't mean I believe they're bad games rather they're games I don't like.
 
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They may as well axe everything. MS hasn't learned from their mistakes and I do understand they need to have their nose everywhere but why not focus in certain things and "GitGud" at it and then move the next one? they constantly start doing all kind of experiments and throw tons of money at it then let the axe fall on them....

That's not how you gain consumer trust but destroy your image!
This is what I saw as their biggest flaw during the life of the xbox one, they dont seem to go long term. Ex employees have complained about it, and claimed it was the result of management 1) having conflicting ideas (having to answer to multiple divisions with different iseaa) and 2) the result of management changing relatively often. It seemed like MS was trying to rebrand itself and show they had turned a new leaf, with big new ideas, at almost every E3. But what always worried me was: will those new ideas be followed through, will they stick with it, or aim for something new 2 years from now. Theyre a huge company, so its normal for them to have many voices competing for ideas, but they might be more successful if they had fewer cooks in the kitchen. I think the Xbox division may need more freedom to do their own thing, because I dont think they have a bad vision, I thini they just need time and space to fulfill it.
I heard about it and I can't wait for those to be revealed BUT isn't WB selling all their game divisions?
Theyre apparently trying to sell them to other publishers, so the games would most likely still be releases (unless the new publisher decides to cancel them). Announcing those games could help them sell their gaming division by showing what they have to offer, or help drive up the price. Im down to see what Rocksteady is working on at the very least.
 

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Crazy GFX coder
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This is what I saw as their biggest flaw during the life of the xbox one, they dont seem to go long term. Ex employees have complained about it, and claimed it was the result of management 1) having conflicting ideas (having to answer to multiple divisions with different iseaa) and 2) the result of management changing relatively often. It seemed like MS was trying to rebrand itself and show they had turned a new leaf, with big new ideas, at almost every E3. But what always worried me was: will those new ideas be followed through, will they stick with it, or aim for something new 2 years from now. Theyre a huge company, so its normal for them to have many voices competing for ideas, but they might be more successful if they had fewer cooks in the kitchen. I think the Xbox division may need more freedom to do their own thing, because I dont think they have a bad vision, I thini they just need time and space to fulfill it.
I think with Xbox that was the case but now it has taken another direction and also I believe they have more freedom now. However, is a general issue at many companies out there and even google and other do that as well. I understand why they do that but I fail to understand how they can be so stupid and do the same thing over and over again killing their own image. For instance Phil explained how the great Game Awards XSX reveal happened and it was because a woman at the team raised her hand and said "Why don't we do that at the Game Awards event?" i'm pretty sure such idea would have been turn down in the past.

Why not just test different ideas and see what is best? I believe there is a disconnection between those people and the general public. When you hear them saying "we knocked it out of the park" and watch what they provided as a show you ask yourself "What? that was a f*cking shit show" or when they say they will show some great games and come with all that kiddy games nobody is interested in.

Theyre apparently trying to sell them to other publishers, so the games would most likely still be releases (unless the new publisher decides to cancel them). Announcing those games could help them sell their gaming division by showing what they have to offer, or help drive up the price. Im down to see what Rocksteady is working on at the very least.
I wonder who is going to buy them because they have some good studios and franchises.
 

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king Kong Never Dies!
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Ever heard of Anita Sarkeesian? in case you didn't know Neil Druckmann wanted her influence in the game and that is where most of the story and the woman power, the feminism and hate from fans come from so to speak. Also she seemed to have influenced Neil quite a lot and in case you don't remember you should see the scene with Joel at the golf club ;) if you pay attention the guy that spit on Joel resembles pretty much Neil Druckmann and there are other weird scenes in the game that made fans go mad and hate the story.

In case you don't know who she is and what she do then you should watch this video below of a popular Youtuber called Boogie talking about his experience with her. As I said I had some experiences with feminists groups and it wasn't really pleasant.
Nope, never heard of Anita and i don't know who is Neil too (but now i know he is someone from ND that has the power to modify storyline, if i am not mistaken). I usually don't check this kind of things that involves sexist, racist, homosexual, etc, i feel they are just like console wars, handphone wars, endless flamewars or arguments that see no end and full of negative energy (like politics).

Btw, I am wondering how many people like me who already expected "him" would be dead / killed when TLOU2 was announced? One of my friends knew he would be killed and that caused him no mood to play the game. While some other friends expected to see father loves daughter storyline and father and daughter survives together + happy ending, altho they don't play the game but they decided to vote the game as 1 star because they don't like the story.

Those who can accept he would be killed, many of them said "he just died like that!?" or "died too fast", and many think ND should set the story taking a longer time for Abby to finally kill him . But i am kinda like the way they do it, because, people really just die like that in real life... did a mistake, and byebye... No miracle, no super hero comes to rescue them... I imagine if the story was real and if i was Abby, i probably would be more cruel to him before i killed him.

I am still chasing Tommy :D
 

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Crazy GFX coder
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Nope, never heard of Anita and i don't know who is Neil too (but now i know he is someone from ND that has the power to modify storyline, if i am not mistaken). I usually don't check this kind of things that involves sexist, racist, homosexual, etc, i feel they are just like console wars, handphone wars, endless flamewars or arguments that see no end and full of negative energy (like politics).

Btw, I am wondering how many people like me who already expected "him" would be dead / killed when TLOU2 was announced? One of my friends knew he would be killed and that caused him no mood to play the game. While some other friends expected to see father loves daughter storyline and father and daughter survives together + happy ending, altho they don't play the game but they decided to vote the game as 1 star because they don't like the story.

Those who can accept he would be killed, many of them said "he just died like that!?" or "died too fast", and many think ND should set the story taking a longer time for Abby to finally kill him . But i am kinda like the way they do it, because, people really just die like that in real life... did a mistake, and byebye... No miracle, no super hero comes to rescue them... I imagine if the story was real and if i was Abby, i probably would be more cruel to him before i killed him.

I am still chasing Tommy :D
I think is just pure disappointment because people have different expectations. The reason I mention those people was as a response to your comment about people on FB. Whatever the case the game story is for sure a controversial one and after watching all the hate and drama out there makes me wonder if the leak was planned. I also don't think there are many or any fanboys involved as most of the people complaining seems to be people who actually love the game or Playstation fans in general. Actually those who aren't usually Playstation fans are the ones talking great about the game.

Its just pure speculation from my part but all the hate causes a very positive effect as is basically free advertising which may be what they were looking for who knows.

As for chasing Tommy.... I went through this part yesterday :p

I have been wasting a lot of time collecting stuff but have managed to get some achievements at least.
 

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king Kong Never Dies!
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I think is just pure disappointment because people have different expectations. The reason I mention those people was as a response to your comment about people on FB. Whatever the case the game story is for sure a controversial one and after watching all the hate and drama out there makes me wonder if the leak was planned. I also don't think there are many or any fanboys involved as most of the people complaining seems to be people who actually love the game or Playstation fans in general. Actually those who aren't usually Playstation fans are the ones talking great about the game.

Its just pure speculation from my part but all the hate causes a very positive effect as is basically free advertising which may be what they were looking for who knows.

As for chasing Tommy.... I went through this part yesterday :p

I have been wasting a lot of time collecting stuff but have managed to get some achievements at least.
I still haven't reached this part (i am spending a lot of time collecting stuff too :D ). I guess it would take me quite some time to finish this game as the nauseaness really slowering me down.

Personally, i don't hate the story and feel it is just more toward reality (the more realistic & cruel side of the world). One comment i would like to say about this game is, ND is very DARING, daring as in they let players to control someone predestined to be hated by majority of players.
 

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Former PlayStation Boss Says AAA Game Development Is Unsustainable


"
"With AAA games costing as much as $150 million to develop, Shawn Layden says the model is "just not sustainable.""

Ok, so are gamer's ready to pay whatever price gets charged for next gen games to fully utilize their consoles or are gamers not going to see their consoles used to their full potential?
 

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Crazy GFX coder
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And he's completely right. This is also the reason why Sony is slowly releasing more and more of their exclusives on PC as making those games is getting extremely expensive and far more than movies this days. Just look at the recent release of TLOU 2 a game with 7 years development... just think about the cost of the game and the amount of people that are going to buy it.

This is why "Exclusives" are going to die as production cost this days are too high to sustain such a business practice any longer.
 

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Crazy GFX coder
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I still haven't reached this part (i am spending a lot of time collecting stuff too :D ). I guess it would take me quite some time to finish this game as the nauseaness really slowering me down.

Personally, i don't hate the story and feel it is just more toward reality (the more realistic & cruel side of the world). One comment i would like to say about this game is, ND is very DARING, daring as in they let players to control someone predestined to be hated by majority of players.
That's really weird that you are getting that issue with the game and wonder why... as for the game I think they went a little too far with the story. Since you are already far enough I can say it now.... I personally don't like the story because there is too many flashbacks trying to explain the story and try to create connections so it makes sense. I have no problem with Joel dying but the way he dies in the game makes no sense as he and Tommy are very experienced and never trust anyone and dying like that after saying his name was kinda dumb. Sure people do dumb things in real life and die but the scenario he was put on was bad.

The worst of the story for me is making you play the ugly woman that happen to be the killer and then at the end.... well you will see what happen. Overall the gameplay(even though I have quite few things to say) is solid and the story is actually not that bad but badly executed IMO.
 

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And he's completely right. This is also the reason why Sony is slowly releasing more and more of their exclusives on PC as making those games is getting extremely expensive and far more than movies this days. Just look at the recent release of TLOU 2 a game with 7 years development... just think about the cost of the game and the amount of people that are going to buy it.
The sequel is currently selling faster than the original, which sold close to 20m copies. It also appears to currently be the fastest selling game of the year, and of the PS4 in general. It will most likely raise 1 billion, making even a budget of 200m incredibly worth it.

Where it isnt worth it for companies to make AAA game is when a new generation is releasing, as is about to happen. Its hard to sell 10m copies when your console hasnt even been sold to 10m users yet. The price to make games increases with each generation, and gamers want you to show what the new console can do, but itll take a few years before you start selling 10m copies regularly. This is where releasing games on two generations at once becomes a good idea, but I dont know if this is what they want to keep doing in the future.

I wouldnt mind if we saw fewer AAA games, and a wider variety of games with shorter development instead. The power of the consoles can still be used in interesting ways even if the game didnt cost 200m to make. But I doubt we'll see AAA games disappear since theyre always a big event.
 

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I acknowledge The Last of Us 2 is going to make a ton of money, may be GotY, will have a sequel, etc....

The only thing I dislike is rabid fans who can't accept the fact people may not like the game.

There are many popular games, movies, songs, sitcoms, I don't like. I have the same right to dislike stuff and others can disagree, others can dislike what I like.

Society seems to not understand people have a right to an opinion, a difference of opinion, and to accepts others opinions without agreeing with those opinions.
 

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Crazy GFX coder
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The sequel is currently selling faster than the original, which sold close to 20m copies. It also appears to currently be the fastest selling game of the year, and of the PS4 in general. It will most likely raise 1 billion, making even a budget of 200m incredibly worth it.

Where it isnt worth it for companies to make AAA game is when a new generation is releasing, as is about to happen. Its hard to sell 10m copies when your console hasnt even been sold to 10m users yet. The price to make games increases with each generation, and gamers want you to show what the new console can do, but itll take a few years before you start selling 10m copies regularly. This is where releasing games on two generations at once becomes a good idea, but I dont know if this is what they want to keep doing in the future.

I wouldnt mind if we saw fewer AAA games, and a wider variety of games with shorter development instead. The power of the consoles can still be used in interesting ways even if the game didnt cost 200m to make. But I doubt we'll see AAA games disappear since theyre always a big event.
That only apply to a successful game at the end of the generation though. AAA games are being released right from the start and 1 out of 5 titles may get the money back(I remember reading that from a Sony exec interview) and that is exactly the problem. AAA games are getting way too expensive and if the game don't sell well for whatever the reason the loss is huge. You also forget that 200m isn't everything and for instance TLOU 2 have a very heavy marketing which cost a lot of money as well. For instance I turn my Fire Stick and get a huge TLOU 2 banner and the same goes for YouTube, FB, news etc.

As the Sony exec said in the interview AAA successful titles have to recoup money not just for their own invest but also for the other titles that failed. We have reached the point where "Exclusivity" is simply not feasible anymore unless you are Nintendo.
 

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Tomb Raider, the game that Rhode Island backed, many games sold millions and it wasn't enough...
 

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Crazy GFX coder
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I acknowledge The Last of Us 2 is going to make a ton of money, may be GotY, will have a sequel, etc....

The only thing I dislike is rabid fans who can't accept the fact people may not like the game.

There are many popular games, movies, songs, sitcoms, I don't like. I have the same right to dislike stuff and others can disagree, others can dislike what I like.

Society seems to not understand people have a right to an opinion, a difference of opinion, and to accepts others opinions without agreeing with those opinions.
This is something that needs to change as not everyone have the same taste. I play everything as my Youtube channel show but there are people that can't accept others having a different taste such as the ponies. one of the reasons I always make fun of the so called "Ponies" is because out of all the regular Xbox, Nintendo and PC fanboys they seem to be the worst followed closely by the PC Masterracers and Xbots. The so called "Bangers" are the games they usually write on their list and they truly believe that those games are the best and the ones everyone should like and that's incorrect. Obviously they only use those for bragging rights and nothing else.

Out of all PS4 "Bangers" the only 2 games worth buying a PS4 for are Bloodborne and HZD for me. I do like TLOU 2 for example and is the best looking game this generation hands down but for me is not a reason to own a PS4 except for those 2 I mentioned.

When you look at the games that truly sell and the ones most people play you will realize they aren't exclusives and those are:

  • FIFA
  • GTA V(that game is still selling lmao)
  • Minecraft
  • Call of Duty
  • Fornite
... and the regular 3rd party online title that every casual play. That is the reality of things and exclusives may appear in the top 10 but they don't hold for long time.
 

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I took GTA V for free on Epic just to play golf. It's on my backlog. I don't do online as it's too toxic with children displaying racist, homophobic, sexist behavior that has destroyed adults committing lesser offenses.

It's unfortunate that not going with the masses generates so much hate. I play video games for entertainment. I don't even play to compete. I figure if I get another 20 years to enjoy gaming, I'm blessed.

People need to focus on what they want to play and enjoy and not on what others like or dislike.

Top 10s don't matter to me anymore.
 
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