[SpaceFolding]

Finally finished Wipeout 3 Special Edition, it's a really good looking game.

 

[jjjfloyd]

Hey cool video!

OT: What did you figure out to force VP9 encodes? On my uploads, it seems random. It looks soooo much better though.

Spent a few days working out the best way to get YouTube to deliver my videos in VP9 so the unfiltered textures and 60 fps stay pristine. Here's a Tekken 3 sample:

VP9 may or may not be switched on by the time you're seeing this.

 

[SpaceFolding]

What did you figure out to force VP9 encodes? On my uploads, it seems random. It looks soooo much better though.

VP9 does look pretty great. After some experimentation, it seems anything deemed demanding or expensive for YouTube's servers will be prioritized for VP9. Since I started uploading 1440p videos, plus 60fps for Tekken 3 in particular, VP9 came online after a few hours. I know not everyone can afford to record in 1440p, so your other option is to upscale but make sure you use a decent filter like lanczos3. However you still require a lot of hard drive space set aside, Wipeout 3 Special Edition (PAL game) was 25fps and 8 minutes long, it took up 10.8gb.

 

[LuismaSp89]

Can someone tell me the differences between epsxe and PCSX-Reloaded, and why PCSX-Reloaded is better? I use this plugin since tapeq created it "I´ve been updating every time that
iCatButler improves it" and i can´t see a reason to change to PCSX-Reloaded.

Note: I use windows 10 x64.

Thanks a lot.

 

[iCatButler]

Can someone tell me the differences between epsxe and PCSX-Reloaded, and why PCSX-Reloaded is better? I use this plugin since tapeq created it "I´ve been updating every time that iCatButler improves it" and i can´t see a reason to change to PCSX-Reloaded.

With regards to PGXP, the reason for using PCSX-R over other emulators is that it's currently the only emulator in which it is implemented

Many features of Tapeq's Tweak plugin will work with both ePSXe and PCSX-R because they implement all the API calls it requires to work, PGXP adds a lot of extra features that require a special build of both the emulator and plugin to work. The main features are listed in the first post on this thread, namely more accurate and stable vertex positions, more accurate culling to prevent gaps and perspective correct textures that don't stretch and warp.

There is a feature of Tapeq's plugin and others called "GTE Accuracy" which was originally created by Edgbla and goes some way to improving vertex accuracy and stability, although it isn't as effective as PGXP in many cases, it doesn't support perspective correct textures or improved culling. It works by caching high precision values and then trying to retrieve them using the native low precision data, this can cause multiple vertices to all associate with a single point, you can see this where UI elements or 2D backgrounds distort when they are close to animating 3D objects.

This video from an early prototype shows the differences between native PSX geometry, GTE Accuracy and full floating point data.

Spoiler

Beyond PGXP I'm sure there are various other differences but I don't have much recent experience with ePSXe.

Edit:

Are games like THPS1 still wobbly as heck? I noticed that no matter what mode I use,the floor still gets quite distorted at times.

There are still games that are wobbly for a number of reasons, it really depends on how the developers processed the vertices.

In the simplest cases like Crash Bandicoot or Threads of Fate the data is animated with good precision, transformed on the GTE (where PGXP starts tracking values) and then copied straight to the GPU. Others like Time Crisis or Chrono Cross have low precision animation, meaning values are already poor when PGXP gets them, while Spyro and Grandia have a lot of processing on the CPU between transformation and the GPU receiving data.

In the case of THPS1 there are two problems:
The first is that the developers have packed additional information into the top 4 bits of some vertices, Pete's plugins strip that out but I hadn't implemented it yet. This stopped the polygons appearing correctly in "Memory + CPU" mode.
Second is the LoD system, which aims to reduce wobbling and texture distortion on original hardware by increasing the polycount, does so by gradually sliding more detailed patches across the floor. It looks like an interesting solution but it can lead to noticeable wobble with PGXP because it's done before transformation.

I've fixed the first problem locally and will try to provide an update soon. I've also found that some games like Hydro Thunder and Alundra 2 pass multiple primitives to the GPU in a single block, PGXP only currently expects one and I'm looking for a way to process this in the Tweak plugin.

 

[LuismaSp89]

With regards to PGXP, the reason for using PCSX-R over other emulators is that it's currently the only emulator in which it is implemented

Many features of Tapeq's Tweak plugin will work with both ePSXe and PCSX-R because they implement all the API calls it requires to work, PGXP adds a lot of extra features that require a special build of both the emulator and plugin to work. The main features are listed in the first post on this thread, namely more accurate and stable vertex positions, more accurate culling to prevent gaps and perspective correct textures that don't stretch and warp.

There is a feature of Tapeq's plugin and others called "GTE Accuracy" which was originally created by Edgbla and goes some way to improving vertex accuracy and stability, although it isn't as effective as PGXP in many cases, it doesn't support perspective correct textures or improved culling. It works by caching high precision values and then trying to retrieve them using the native low precision data, this can cause multiple vertices to all associate with a single point, you can see this where UI elements or 2D backgrounds distort when they are close to animating 3D objects.

This video from an early prototype shows the differences between native PSX geometry, GTE Accuracy and full floating point data.

Spoiler

Beyond PGXP I'm sure there are various other differences but I don't have much recent experience with ePSXe.

So, i need a "special" version of PCSX-R to work with the plugin?

Thanks in advance.

 

[iCatButler]

To get PGXP features to work, yes. The WIP builds of PCSXR-PGXP all come with both a modified PCSX-R executable and versions of the base 1.78 OpenGL plugin and Tapeq's Tweak 2.4 plugin.

There's a link to the most current build in the first post of this thread along with instructions on how to set it up.

 

[LuismaSp89]

To get PGXP features to work, yes. The WIP builds of PCSXR-PGXP all come with both a modified PCSX-R executable and versions of the base 1.78 OpenGL plugin and Tapeq's Tweak 2.4 plugin.

There's a link to the most current build in the first post of this thread along with instructions on how to set it up.

Ok, i´ll give a try, thanks a lot : )

 

[LuismaSp89]

Err... this is embarrassing, but i don´t know how to compile the source code from the first post... Can someone share his modified PCSX-R?

Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[iCatButler]

Err... this is embarrassing, but i don´t know how to compile the source code from the first post... Can someone share his modified PCSX-R?

Sorry for the inconvenience.

The most recent build is under the "Links" section of the first post, sorry if it wasn't clear, I'll repost it here for you: WIP_PGXP_build_16_08_01.zip

It contains compiled binaries of the pcsxr-pgxp.exe and the two plugins. You'll need an existing install of PCSXR to add them to, there's a link to the PCSX-reloaded homepage or you can use Tapeq's build from his thread. The exe goes in the same folder as pcsxr.exe and the plugin dlls go in the plugins folder.

 

[LuismaSp89]

The most recent build is under the "Links" section of the first post, sorry if it wasn't clear, I'll repost it here for you: WIP_PGXP_build_16_08_01.zip

It contains compiled binaries of the pcsxr-pgxp.exe and the two plugins. You'll need an existing install of PCSXR to add them to, there's a link to the PCSX-reloaded homepage or you can use Tapeq's build from his thread. The exe goes in the same folder as pcsxr.exe and the plugin dlls go in the plugins folder.

Wow, thanks for the 3rd time iCatButler!

 

[jjjfloyd]

How do I bring up the debug interface that shows everything color-coded according to whether it's hi-res or lo-res? And can you explain the colors etc. again? I think this info was in the old thread but I can't find it now.

Is culling automatically enabled with PGXP? I don't see any options related to culling.

What does caching vertices do?

 

[SpaceFolding]

How do I bring up the debug interface that shows everything color-coded according to whether it's hi-res or lo-res?

When using OpenGL 1.78, press F11 to cycle through 3 styles of debugging modes.

 

[jjjfloyd]

My understanding was that PGXP required Pete's Opengl2 2.9? Anyway it doesn't seem like F11 does anything.

When using OpenGL 1.78, press F11 to cycle through 3 styles of debugging modes.

 

[the_randomizer]

Sure is nice having my question about THPS1 ignored. But hey, I guess it's natural for questions to get buried on a thread like this.

http://ngemu.com/threads/pcsxr-pgxp.186369/page-3#post-2520049

Anyways.

I'd tag @iCatButler but he's probably pretty busy, IDK.

 

[psxhd]

Sure is nice having my question about THPS1 ignored. But hey, I guess it's natural for questions to get buried on a thread like this.

http://ngemu.com/threads/pcsxr-pgxp.186369/page-3#post-2520049

Anyways.

I'd tag @iCatButler but he's probably pretty busy, IDK.

He already answered your question few posts above

There are still games that are wobbly for a number of reasons, it really depends on how the developers processed the vertices.

In the simplest cases like Crash Bandicoot or Threads of Fate the data is animated with good precision, transformed on the GTE (where PGXP starts tracking values) and then copied straight to the GPU. Others like Time Crisis or Chrono Cross have low precision animation, meaning values are already poor when PGXP gets them, while Spyro and Grandia have a lot of processing on the CPU between transformation and the GPU receiving data.

In the case of THPS1 there are two problems:
The first is that the developers have packed additional information into the top 4 bits of some vertices, Pete's plugins strip that out but I hadn't implemented it yet. This stopped the polygons appearing correctly in "Memory + CPU" mode.
Second is the LoD system, which aims to reduce wobbling and texture distortion on original hardware by increasing the polycount, does so by gradually sliding more detailed patches across the floor. It looks like an interesting solution but it can lead to noticeable wobble with PGXP because it's done before transformation.

I've fixed the first problem locally and will try to provide an update soon. I've also found that some games like Hydro Thunder and Alundra 2 pass multiple primitives to the GPU in a single block, PGXP only currently expects one and I'm looking for a way to process this in the Tweak plugin.

 

[jjjfloyd]

Here is the Vagrant Story intro in 1080p... I remember the graphics blowing me away back in 2000. Still a very cool intro and PGXP does quite well here. There are some glitches here and there but I'm not sure if that is a PCSXR issue or a PGXP issue.

Here is a "before" video:

 

[iCatButler]

Sure is nice having my question about THPS1 ignored. But hey, I guess it's natural for questions to get buried on a thread like this.

As psxhd said, I replied to your query in this post. It was appended as an edit though, to avoid double posting, so I can appreciate that you might not have noticed it.

I've uploaded a build which fixes the first problem described but further improvement will require changes to start processing values earlier. I'll let you know if I see any drastic improvements with later builds.
WIP_PGXP_build_16_08_31.zip

How do I bring up the debug interface that shows everything color-coded according to whether it's hi-res or lo-res? And can you explain the colors etc. again? I think this info was in the old thread but I can't find it now.

Is culling automatically enabled with PGXP? I don't see any options related to culling.

What does caching vertices do?

The debug visualisations are available by pressing F11 when using the OpenGL 1.78 plugin (there are two supported plugins 1.78 and the Tweak 2.4 that requires the 2.9 plugin).
There are currently three modes that can be cycled through, the first shows the different states of each vertex:

• Blue: Successfully tracked from transformation on the GTE to the GPU.
• Cyan: Tracked but has lost its 'w' component (new to this version)
• Yellow: The vertices belong to a 2D sprite element.
  
• Red: No valid value was found so it falls back on the native low precision values.
• Green: A suitable high precision value has been found in the cache
• Magenta: Multiple high precision values were found at the same position of the cache, making the result ambiguous, so the low precision value is used.

The other two modes (in this version) display depth values as a spectrum from blue to red. The second mode being the 'w' components of the vertices (previously this was grey scale). The last shows depth information taken from the Ordering Table used by the PlayStation to sort primitives.

Improved culling is automatically enabled, turning it off would perhaps fix a few logic bugs in games like Ridge Racer but would leave distracting holes in most geometry.

Vertex caching is an implementation of Edgbla's GTE accuracy technique, instead of tracking vertices as they're moved through the PSX's memory and registers, it uses the native low precision positions as a lookup to store and retrieve high precision values from a cache. While there are a number of problems with this approach, because of the low precision of the lookup values, it can be useful to improve coverage in games that don't work well with PGXP.

@gamax92 this new build should smooth vertices in Hydro Thunder, although the 'w' components come through badly so you might want to disable perspective correct texturing for now.

@TheDimensioner Alundra 2 had the same behaviour as Hydro Thunder so should also work now, in this case I think the 'w' values are pretty good.

 

[jjjfloyd]

Thanks for the reply iCatButler. Two issues:

F11 does nothing for me regardless of whether I'm using Opengl 2.9 or 1.78.

Secondly, I do not seem to have any PGXP effect using 1.78. It's very jittery no matter how I configure the PGXP panel. What am I doing wrong?

 

[iCatButler]

It sounds like you're not using the version of the 1.78 plugin from the WIP build, maybe it didn't copy across properly. While it requires special versions of both executable and plugins for all the features to work it won't completely fail if they're mixed with normal versions.

Can you try copying the new version into the plugins folder and making sure the configuration is pointing to the right folder.