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Ugly as sin, would prefer 2D ala Xenogears Episode I & II.

I love the tales series, would love it if they'd remake Tales of Phantasia for the NDS instead of the GBA (which is FINALLY OMFG COMING TO THE US officially translated!). Remaking hte PSX version to the NDS would be something the NDS can handle perfectly. But oh well :(.
 

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Actually, he's a Dev at Shin'En.

Nanostray's environments are all rendered in real-time. Why anyone would try to say they're not is beyond me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The spacecrafts look pasted on the background. If they can render those backgrounds in real time then those ships shouldn't look worse and out of place. Perhaps the backgrounds aren't prerendered or 3D but are a clever use of 2D graphics.

Tales of Tempest looks better than Xenosaga 1 & 2 imo.

Can the DS handle ToP(PSX) especially when their largest card can fit only 128 MB? Personally I don't want to see games ported/remade for the DS which had gameplay that didn't originally use a stylus and touch screen.
 

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From what I've seen, yet, the DS is still on PSX level. Nanostray is no exception and that one Tales of Tempest shot could be rendered by the Tales of Eternia world map engine...

P.S.: Don't get me wrong - the PSX can do great graphics and so can can the DS.
 

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Taisen said:
The spacecrafts look pasted on the background. If they can render those backgrounds in real time then those ships shouldn't look worse and out of place. Perhaps the backgrounds aren't prerendered or 3D but are a clever use of 2D graphics.
I have the game, I know what I'm talking about ;)
It's 3D; It's not just simple scrolling in one direction either, but more like Ikaruga. I don't think you can do that in 2D; there's parts where you move closer to the ground; if it were 2D it would immediately be revealed because it would be a flat image, and it's not.
It couldn't possibly be a movie either; the levels are quite lengthy and the DS wouldn't be able to fit that into lengthy movies without compression (in case you thought they might use a technique similar to megarace 2). Aside from that it would be unlikely because why would they lower the quality to make it look like it wasn't prerendered (complete with pixelated textures). And indeed, there are no movie compression artifacts, of course ;)
I've seen a German topic with someone indeed defending the fact it's not prerendered who's not a Shin'en dev., but the topic above is on the official forums (majesco published it in the US), and that's indeed a nanostray developer answering that it's not prerenderd.
To be fair, I DO believe they use a trick in the ending sequence (the ship circulating in a nicely looking landscape); technically that isn't called prerendering but afaik they're using simply a background image in that part.
The devs. sure took a good look at other recent shmups btw.

Finally, you might want to check out the movie(s) on the official site, http://www.nanostray.com

When it comes to 3D the psx is more capable.
Perhaps. Resident Evil 1 is being ported but we all know those backgrounds aren't 3D.
I do know the DS is capable of 3D quality above that of the N64 (the only thing it doesnt have is texture filtering, but I like it better without for the DS anyway); how close that is to PS1 quality, I don't know; the PS1 uses some pretty good lighting effects in its later games (R4 and Ace Combat 3 for example), I haven't yet seen a DS game do that.
And the DS' screen resolution (one single screen) is lower than that of the PS and N64... I'd have preferred if it had 320x240 screens instead of just 256x212.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I am getting the feeling you are slightly confused about my opinion. The crafts are 3D models as far as I can tell which can be scaled down and up to produce the illusion of going into the background and coming out of the background. The same effect could be produced in 2D using gradually smaller sprites. I just don't think the backgrounds are real time generated 3D graphics.
 

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Hey, I'm definitely no NDS fanboy, but going as far as you do, Taisen, would be injustice. The DS is capable of more than the PSX can do (Super Mario 64 DS is a fine example). The problem I was pointing at was the fact that too few games even come close to the real potential that thing has.
 

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The DS is virtually an N64 in your hand. Slightly better than the N64 (better texturing ability). Problem is, its got Gameboy complex. Dev's are pushing games out quick and cheap. Not that they're not fun as heck, but it may be a while (probably Final Fantasy III) before you see a DS game that really shows off what the system can do. Other than Nintendogs which doesnt render anything but the dog really.
 

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Taisen said:
I am getting the feeling you are slightly confused about my opinion. The crafts are 3D models as far as I can tell which can be scaled down and up to produce the illusion of going into the background and coming out of the background. The same effect could be produced in 2D using gradually smaller sprites. I just don't think the backgrounds are real time generated 3D graphics.
well, they are ;)
The crafts are 3D models, but I think some of the items you pick up are actually sprites.
Even with the advanced tricks you describe, it isn't possible to turn/zoom like the backgrounds do in Nanostray (simple: try doing ikaruga's or raystorm/crisis' backgrounds in 2D; can't do that? well, then neither it's possible in Nanostray).
Besides, while it's one of the best looking titles on DS, it's not out of this world spectacular either - 3D bg's in shmups have been done on the PS1 and the Saturn, why wouldn't the DS be able to do it....

Note: I'm also not trying to be a DS fanboy; just telling what it can do.
 

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Yeah, the DS is quite significantly more powerful than the PSX.

It has a dedicated 3D processor which can draw approximately 2500 polys onscreen at a full 60FPS. For comparison, the N64 was hardly capable of 2000 polys at 20FPS (Zelda OoT/MM). The GPU also has some unique features, like Cel-Shading done directly on the GPU.

The only thing that's really missing and the thing people use to constantly bash the DS, is any form of texture filtering.. although on the small LCDs the quality is so good, it doesn't matter. I own Nanostray as well, and I can tell you, nothing is prerendered.

It looks good, and is no doubt one of the best on the DS, but it's capable of even more than that.
 

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cooliscool said:
The only thing that's really missing and the thing people use to constantly bash the DS, is any form of texture filtering.. although on the small LCDs the quality is so good, it doesn't matter. I own Nanostray as well, and I can tell you, nothing is prerendered.
I've said this in several places a few times (like my blog - shameless plug), about that I think texture filtering is a little overrated; on the DS I think it's in fact better off without (I guess it wouldnt hurt if it optionally had it); many games use a 2D/3D blend on the DS and you really don't want/need texture filtering with that.
 

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Exactly, I agree completely.
 

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Alright. Sorry for spreading false information. Those screens I saw just gave me that PSX-like impression. I guess the lack of filtering helped that a lot.
 
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