JPS2 - PCSX2 Java port?

Exophase said:

I think if I ask "why" I'll just get flamed off the thread like that one time.

So uh.. yeah.

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Exophase,

there´s no problem in asking "WHY" as that´s a normal question... the problem is the way you ask something as you could offend someone, in case you´re talking about the "no comment" thread where i showed some pics of my current state in the port then there´s something i wanted to say since quite long time now... was a bad thing actually first because there was a big misunderstanding in the whole thread and because i got pissed because you guys came and destroyed my thread.. anyways that´s past and we´re still here enjoying this beautifull time... isn´t that more important than previous disputes?

coder != coder each of us has different interests and views.. we all have different opinions, code different, think different and therefore sometimes its hard to understand why "X" coder do something. "WHY"??? sometimes many of us do "X" thing/port just for fun so "Why" is a big problem to have fun??? what we do here is for fun and we aren´t here in a competition or such thing. got the point??? sometimes is not about results or accuracy.. its all about fun and who knows what we could find out with our tests... in my country people say "don´t blame the soup if you haven´t tasted yet" what it means is that if you haven´t tested X thing yourself just let it be.

but hey... this is a emulation comunity so i think every single work should be appreciated and also every single coder that does his best on something... again asking "Why" isn´t a problem but trying to say someone is wrong because in your view its not right isn´t always the best thing.. for example in the past people thought the earth was plane and blamed Christopher columbus as they thought its wrong because to there understanding he was just silly... but as the history have proven the earth isn´t plane with that am not saying that its going to be always right what people test but... we shouldn´t forget that big discovers has been made because people just had fun with something or they just had a silly idea.. so sometimes instead of asking "why are you that silly??"(sorry it sounded that way for me in the "no comment thread") its better just let it be and be happy that someone is doing an alternative :thumb:

again... am not attacking you by any means and our previous problems belong to the past for me but i just wanted to make those points clear.

fried_egg said:

yeah, but why?

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Ok i think i should answer your question i guess....

Q: Why???
A: Because some coders just want to test there capabilities on X language or just for fun... now answer my questions please

- Why not???
- its a sin to code in other language other than C/C++ or ASM????
- its a sin to pick up Java and code something????
- what´s wrong in being a C/C++ coder for years and have the need to try something new and love it???
- what´s wrong if someone start to like X language????
- what´s wrong in having fun coding with a language and find out that toolkits are being developed for it in order to develope in other plattforms and love it??? /*GTK#, Qyoto, QT4DotNet, wxnet, Cocoa#*/
- what´s wrong in having fun coding iphone apps using monotouch like me???
- what´s wrong in having to learn a leanguage for your new job like me???
- what´s wrong in having fun after having to learn a language you hated for years and find out you were totally wrong????
- its a sin to waste some time on something???? don´t you waste time coding a crappy GUI in C???
- its a sin to create intranet apps with the same language mentioned in all previous points???
- what´s wrong in writing an emulator and find out that something is not possible??? /*at least you could say you try it or like in the case of C# you could use C++*/
- what´s wrong in having fun with a language and write a nice looking app that is even able to record itself like this one:
instead of wasting time with C/C++ writing GDI+ calls and some apis to draw the stuff in such as "SetLayeredWindow" in order to create an acceptable per-pixel GUI and get bad results because the lack of hardware acceleration in GDI+????

so again why not???????

Exophase said:

I think if I ask "why" I'll just get flamed off the thread like that one time.

So uh.. yeah.

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i've talked to the guy since he sometimes joins our dev channel.

i don't think he'll get very far before he realizes its too much work and just a silly idea.

bkwegoharder said:

Well more people know Java and it is easier so there will probably be a lot more people able to help I guess.

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if you're only skilled with java, and unable to learn c++, then you most likely don't have the skills required to code a ps2 emu.

@ruantec said:

- Why not???
...
so again why not???????

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because in the time wasted in porting the code, you could have actually fixed emulation problems and rewrote parts of the emu (e.g. done something useful with the code).

not to mention that the port will be slower for a lot of reasons, there is no way you can sensibly say otherwise.
if java would be a good idea for current generation emus, then we wouldn't need the c port of jpcsp.

c# is a more sensible option than java since it supports unsigned variables, which would make the interpreter easier. but aside from that, still a waste of valuable time.

Phil said:

I lol'led. Seriously :rotflmao:

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its funny because its true :lol:

bkwegoharder said:

Well more people know Java and it is easier so there will probably be a lot more people able to help I guess.

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Optimistic outlook, and a rational one for someone looking outside to make. But I'm going to have to disagree.

By and large PCSX2 can only benefit seriously from people who are or can be near the top of the game when it comes to writing efficient emulator code. There aren't an awful lot of these people around - new people can learn, but these sorts of people are generally not (and shouldn't be) the type who wouldn't hold true to Java out of fear of C/C++.

Don't get me wrong, people like cottonvibes do come around who end up rolling out vector recompiler code seemingly out of nowhere. There are very talented people hiding out there. But they're more the exception than the rule.

There could be people like this in the Java world, sure, it's just more likely that they'll be coming from a C background because that's where the low level machine understanding necessary for emulator optimization comes from.

@ruantec said:

Q: Why???
A: Because some coders just want to test there capabilities on X language or just for fun... now answer my questions please

- Why not???
- its a sin to code in other language other than C/C++ or ASM????
- its a sin to pick up Java and code something????
- what´s wrong in being a C/C++ coder for years and have the need to try something new and love it???
- what´s wrong if someone start to like X language????
- what´s wrong in having fun coding with a language and find out that toolkits are being developed for it in order to develope in other plattforms and love it??? /*GTK#, Qyoto, QT4DotNet, wxnet, Cocoa#*/
- what´s wrong in having fun coding iphone apps using monotouch like me???
- what´s wrong in having to learn a leanguage for your new job like me???
- what´s wrong in having fun after having to learn a language you hated for years and find out you were totally wrong????
- its a sin to waste some time on something???? don´t you waste time coding a crappy GUI in C???
- its a sin to create intranet apps with the same language mentioned in all previous points???
- what´s wrong in writing an emulator and find out that something is not possible??? /*at least you could say you try it or like in the case of C# you could use C++*/
- what´s wrong in having fun with a language and write a nice looking app that is even able to record itself like this one:

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Okay, I don't really want to make a big response to this because I feel you have a habit of reading my responses in entirely the wrong way, but I'm personally not looking for an apologetic viewpoint justifying someone's right to use a language that isn't C or C++. That really isn't the point. PCSX2 is a project that's already years underway and migrating it to some other language needs to have a pragmatic reason to be worth doing. "I like this language and it deserves equal time" isn't one, and "I can't contribute to it otherwise" is a poor one unless the guy has some kind of brilliant idea that will benefit the emulator in an enormous way. Even then it's still a very poor compromise because ultimately the emulator suffers from being split into two parallel code bases.

I can think of several practical reasons why moving PCSX2 to Java is a bad idea, I can also think of several circumstantial ones, such as the active talent that's driven PCSX2 to this point and continues to maintain it not being on board. But none of that really matters, what I'm asking is how does PCSX2 benefit from this? And as far as I'm concerned, if no answer can be given then it doesn't, And that's all I really need to say about the topic. If it makes so and so feel good or liberated to do this then they can knock themselves out.

Personally I tire of the "why not" answer, because it's not answering the question. It's just avoiding any critical thought on the matter. Everyone has a reason for doing what they do - if you don't want to reflect on those reasons then that's on you, but that isn't going to justify them in the eyes of others.

cottonvibes said:

i
because in the time wasted in porting the code, you could have actually fixed emulation problems and rewrote parts of the emu (e.g. done something useful with the code).

not to mention that the port will be slower for a lot of reasons, there is no way you can sensibly say otherwise.
if java would be a good idea for current generation emus, then we wouldn't need the c port of jpcsp.

c# is a more sensible option than java since it supports unsigned variables, which would make the interpreter easier. but aside from that, still a waste of valuable time.

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i´ll answer your post with my comment to the exophase one.

Its probably true that i tend to misunderstand your posts for some strange reasons and i still don´t understand why..probably because of my crappy english dunno, in any case SORRY.. one thing i know for sure and that´s the i got your point for the very first time. i think i finally comprehend what you really meant and why you´re asking "WHY?".

its my fault for not being able to put the right words here to explain what i meant.. let me try one more time okay?

the goal of the guy/guys behind this new ps2 emu in Java is still unknown to me but i can answer your question on why am writing a port of it in C#.

1. am not planning to release my port nor compete with PCSX2 as its not my goal but i could fix several flaws in the code i´ve seen so far.
2. does my port contribute to PCSX2??? the answer is "NO" as am doing this for my own interest and researches on how far i could get.
3. is the idea of writting a port of PCSX2 in Java a good idea??? NO.
4. am i wasting my time on my tests and researches??? No, because as i´ve showed in several threads here already am getting insane results because of my silly tests.

the idea is not always pick up a project and contribute to it but more than that to learn from it or just as i do... make some tests and push X language to the limits in order to see how far you could get and what can be done or not.

now why is that important for me???? during my research and tests i´ve found several things and one of them is the creation of hybrid apps using two different languages by using there power in different areas.. what i mean is that as you probably know both languages(C++ and C#) have there flaws and strengths while in some areas C++ kicks C# ass there are also many but really many areas where C# just kick C++ butt in a very bad way and that´s something i´ve found during my researches now. because of the nature of C# there are many tasks that could be done using less overhead than using C++ code. by mixing both strenghts into one app the posibilities are limitless as far as i´ve seen and the performance gain is huge.

how do i benefit from that??? as you may know i can use C++ without problems in C# anytime... because of that i can use there strenghts by using the right language for the right task and the results am getting are insanely awesome. in case you didn´t knew my main app called @ES contains C++ code in many areas while it uses C# in areas where C++ isn´t just the best way. this not only help me to increase performance but also development time as i can write the entire structure in C# and avoid overheads with C++ code and use C++ when i know it can be done better.

with all that i hope you comprehend why in God´s sake people use there time to test or just write something that probably is a waste of time for others.. when in reality isn´t.

without those test i would´ve never found strengths of C# nor test things that helped me with the development of my app and also with my code here at work. and at the end make some silly tests like this one:

or write projects like this one:

again is not about low-level nor results is just about how much could a test help you to comprehend X language in a better way and as you probably know what i show on that pic its "Theoretically" impossible to accomplish with traditional ways or C/C++ code not to mention speeds.

As for the possibility that a C# version of PCSX2 could be on par(if not beat the actual one) with the actual PCSX2... am now more than confident that is possible by using Hybrid techniques, the results could be impressive if you ask me(still have to research more in that area tho.).