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I know some team got an hard time trying to emulate ps2, xbox or gamecube i think theyre going great. Do you think with the new console (X360, ps3 ...) itll be impossible to emulate? or just take too many years to do.
 
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People just got used to see results way too quick ... it took roughly 5 years to emulator the original PSX "properly" - and I guess it'll get back to that pretty soon.

Edit: And this is totally the wrong forum for this thread! Moving ...
 

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Well, don't blame them when we get emulators like DS and GBA emulators so quick. :p

And really, I am really amazed by the Chankast and PCSX2 progresses. Just a couple of more years and we'll be choosing whether to play PS2 games on PS3 or our PC ;)
 

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Oh hell no, technology changes, I mean back when the Playstation was first released, who in their right mind would think it was possible to emulate? I mean we're talking about 3D here guys! :p

I do have a funny feeling that next gen hardware for PC's will be playing a huge role and that some emulators may have certain hardware limitations, etc ...
 
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On the other hand ... as PCs and consoles get closer and closer hardware wise, I can already see the day coming where most games get released on all systems at once.
 

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i think a general problem is that the "lifecircle" of Consoles is getting WAY shorter(compare PSX to PS2!).
And yes of course there will be emulators for the new consoles, especially PS which is Cell powered.. as IBM has quite open minds with cell.
But the thing is all consoles get more complex so it does take more and more tme to create good emus....or even collect hardware information about it...
think about it:
SNES is uhm.. very old still there are unkown hardware issues which prevent perfect emulation..
Another problem is when i think about emucoding there is also the "tacit"-knowledge problem like in many companys today. Emucoding very hard, since Programming is also hard if u want to know what u want to do it gets even more interesting if u have low or even no.. information abut the plattform u are workin with... not many people think about that if they scream for other or new emus. But projects like Xebra show that other emu authors try to build up some online usable knowledge base , which is very good. We just need it in english and for all common Console platforms ;)
wbr Shin Gouki
 

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Too early to think about emulators of those consoles! they weren't even released yet! IMO, emulation is for old-and-dead consoles, not for the upcoming ones. Otherwise, its a waste of time.
See NDS? "one week" after the release, we had the first emulator ¬¬" and now emus can only run demos and a very few games. What was all that anxiousity for? :p However, need to congrat all the efforts for DSes emus out there; authors are doing their bests =D
So, lets take break... PC world turns so fast, evolution is unvoidable, someday we will PS3 or Xbox 360 in our PCs. Let's just wait some couple of years. (but yeah, i think we'll be able to emulate them when they'll be dead consoles :laugh:)
 

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Yes, I agree what Miretank, said. Emulation should be more about the older consoles/pc' etc., otherwise they will die out an be forgotten, and a major part of our history will be lost. But, let me add something. The REALLY next gen emulation, WILL happen, but it will not as fast or as good as it is for psx or n64 for example, but what it will do is create a base for the rest of the emulators to come, just like PCSX2 which allows anyone to freely view and modify its code, letting other writers out there get a nice boost. If someone decides to start a new PS2 emu im sure they will look at some PCSX2 code at some point. By the way how can you possibly compare DS to 360/PS3 or even PS2, thats just insane, after all said and done its still a handheld...
 

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Shin_Gouki said:
i think a general problem is that the "lifecircle" of Consoles is getting WAY shorter(compare PSX to PS2!).
And yes of course there will be emulators for the new consoles, especially PS which is Cell powered.. as IBM has quite open minds with cell.
But the thing is all consoles get more complex so it does take more and more tme to create good emus....or even collect hardware information about it...
think about it:
SNES is uhm.. very old still there are unkown hardware issues which prevent perfect emulation..
Another problem is when i think about emucoding there is also the "tacit"-knowledge problem like in many companys today. Emucoding very hard, since Programming is also hard if u want to know what u want to do it gets even more interesting if u have low or even no.. information abut the plattform u are workin with... not many people think about that if they scream for other or new emus. But projects like Xebra show that other emu authors try to build up some online usable knowledge base , which is very good. We just need it in english and for all common Console platforms ;)
wbr Shin Gouki
PSX to PS2 took 6 years...PS2 to PS3 is also taking 6 years. So I don't understand what you mean :p. N64 to Gamecube also 6 years, MS is the only one tripping out and doing it 4 years later (nintendo will likely release near PS3 time period making GC have only 5 years on the market instead of the industry standard 6).

Anyway on to the subject at hand. Yes DS and PSP can be emulated quicker , they're at best as powerful as the PS2. And at worst as powerful as the PSX or Saturn. So it's not like trying to emulate something requiring a lot of horsepower. Heck they're still trying to perfect the PSX Saturn and N64 emulation,

And yeah, emulation shouldn't even be available for at least during the consoles lifetime. I wasn't playing Genesis games on my PC until well into the psx's lifecycle. And I wasn't playing NES games until the psx life cycle had been going for a while. It's nice to play the older games of consoles you have but are put up in the attic or not immediately availble to be plugged in. That's why I emulate...to play those old games I love - but don't have the consoles connected anymore. And thats one reason I LOVE backwards compatability. I want to unplug my current gen systems as soon as I get their next gen counterparts...adn the PS2 having BC was beautiful for that reason.
 

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The real reason why emulation has slowed down is mostly that CPU:s hit a clock speed brick wall. Back in the days of quickly ramping cpu speed (96-2000) PC:s quickly became way faster than the current consoles, PSX and N64, making emulation very possible.

The same thing did not happen this time. Sure today's PC:s are faster than PS2, GC and XBox but the difference isn't big enough. And of course the situation will be even worse in the next generation.
 

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well 3rd try..
In my opinion the clock speed is not the major issue with emulation...
2 concerning aspects:
*growing Concole complexity
A Console is a Computer with its own CPU, peripheral devices, Interfaces and opcodes. The desgin of such differs A LOT from PC Hardware and especially Software. Consoles of PS2 Generation are so complex that a single coder can't afford much, also very low or almost no information about the Concole components functionality is known. Most people who scream for emulation of next gen consoles don't think about HOW those consoles were designed:
lots of highly paid and highly educated people designed over years in teamwork hardware and then software for entertainment.
To map this designed hardware onto todays PC Hardware AND Software( OS, Interfaces) is as u can see something non trivial(blackbox coding).

*Software engineering
Another aspect is the Software engineering aspect. In most cases emuathors work alone (see various GBA or GC emuathors) , maybe 3-4 perople ( see ePSXe or Chankast) or in even "bigger" groups (PCSX2).
IF an 15 yeas old coding genius starts to code an emu he gets quite far, with GBA or less complex consoles there might be some reasonable results. But then he will get 18 and his interests will go into real Life or paid work. This is just very understandable, but from a certain point of view just very damn sad. Because all knowledge is lost that he had with his Emulator, if he is nice he publishes his Code.
But even with that every advanced coder knows that only code...is not enough for other people to work with that code u need documentations and concepts which are usable by all other people who want help.

wbr Shin Gouki
 

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I think the current trend is to emulate on systems other than PC's; you can see this with the rather large DC, DS and PSP homebrew communities for example. Why would emulation of (classic) systems be limited to PC's only?
 

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well, it wasnt even a month old, and u keep posting on it ;)
 

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Interesting thread.. I've thought about it myself occasionally. I suppose the complexity of new consoles will begin to relatively increase the time it takes to develop an emulator.. To the point where perhaps no one bothers - as there's simply too much to do. In reality power of modern day computers doesn't really come into the equation - coders don't become more powerful, so that'll be the main thing likely to slow down the scene.. Or rather the next gen scene.

Sorry to continue an old thread, but I didn't see it originally!
 

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Interesting thread.. I've thought about it myself occasionally. I suppose the complexity of new consoles will begin to relatively increase the time it takes to develop an emulator.. To the point where perhaps no one bothers - as there's simply too much to do. In reality power of modern day computers doesn't really come into the equation - coders don't become more powerful, so that'll be the main thing likely to slow down the scene.. Or rather the next gen scene.
True. The actual PC hardware degree is free to full-emulate a complex system, in my opinion. But coders need to have THE skills to put Hardware and Code working together flawlessly and with harmony.
But what do we see? Classic consoles seems to easier to code due its low-engine of instructions, and so simply functions. Now, the new-generation (think of this new-wave) consoles comes with lot of budgets to increase graphics and other elements to make it run, but they're so complex that may only the producers of the console knows how to write these codes.
Highlighting other thing: the absolute majority of emu coders, they are free-time coders, they don't earn money by releasing emus. So we can't expect everything from them - they do their best by coding emus but according with his skills. And with their free time - "unfortunately", they have real lives ;)
We're really lucky for having such a great number of good emulators around living in a situation like this :)
 

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moomoomoo said:
coders don't become more powerful, so that'll be the main thing likely to slow down the scene..
I totally agree with this idea, but also at that time many programming langauges will be going to be developed more which would make it way easier to emulate. And if we look at all Emus we can see that many programming languages were used through time with different versions every time.
 
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