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Discussion Starter #1
Ever since bleem's demise, a thought has occurred to me.

The only real legal obstacle I can think of to legitimate emulation of a PlayStation has been the necessity of a BIOS image. bleem! and Connectix got around that issue by creating house BIOS's using "clean room" techniques: bypassing the copyright issue by creating a functionally equivalent but self-made clone.

Has anyone within the general PSX emulation community given thought to figuring out how to clone the PSX BIOS through clean room rechniques?
 

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Originally posted by WhosAsking
Ever since bleem's demise, a thought has occurred to me.

The only real legal obstacle I can think of to legitimate emulation of a PlayStation has been the necessity of a BIOS image. bleem! and Connectix got around that issue by creating house BIOS's using "clean room" techniques: bypassing the copyright issue by creating a functionally equivalent but self-made clone.

Has anyone within the general PSX emulation community given thought to figuring out how to clone the PSX BIOS through clean room rechniques?
I am not sure what you meant to say but psychojack is working on a technique which will enable psinex to run even without a bios.:)
 
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I think what he means is if there is a way to say, program a bios yourself that works properly. Sort of a freeware clone-bios.
 

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Yep, that's how IBM lost the monopoly on PC's. Someone reverse engineered their BIOS, gave away the specs and someone else used those docs to write a completely original BIOS that would do the same thing. Considering how big PC's are today, this can only be a good thing.

Amberion
 

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iirc, part of the reason why VGS was bought out by Sony was because they proved that Connectix did use some of their proprietary BIOS code, making it not entirely "clean."
 
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dunno...maybe they would have won again in court.
Anyways, all the lawsuits werent worth it; VGS didnt sell well enough or that.
....inferior marketing, right betamax? :) ...and it was pirated a lot.
 

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Connectix didn't win against Sony in court. Only Bleem did. Both were marketed poorly. Both were massively pirated.
 
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oh...I thought there were several lawsuits against connectix and that they had won a few or something...but I'm probably mixing it up with the bleem thing then.

maybe they were both poorly marketet, but bleem sure got the attention. Connectix didnt.
Yeah, and both were pirated...with vgs it was just even easier.
 

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A cloned Bios would stop the lamer begging if it were included with the emulator.

but then again, it only takes 2 minutes to search for a bios on google...
 

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What would be necessary is for someone to make a (clean)clone bios, then release it open source. There's practically no other way to bust open Sony's lock on the PSX.

Amberion
 

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What would be necessary is for someone to make a (clean)clone bios, then release it open source. There's practically no other way to bust open Sony's lock on the PSX.
Well, usually I'd point out that the PSX belongs to Sony, and that I think the whole piracy thing is utterly wrong, that I know that there are a lot of people out there who are just using the PSX emulators to play pirated copies of PSX discs, and that there are probablt a lot more people doing that than there are actually buying real PSX games to play on their PC.

But I won't because this whole situations entirely Sony's fault for not making their own emulator available for us to buy in the first place.

Any argument Sony had against emulation went out of the window when they allowed the publication of the Final Fantasy Classics games, which are all emulations of the original SNES ROMs.
 

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Yikes.. Weird and inacurate speculations!

Amberion
Yep, that's how IBM lost the monopoly on PC's. Someone reverse engineered their BIOS, gave away the specs and someone else used those docs to write a completely original BIOS that would do the same thing. Considering how big PC's are today, this can only be a good thing.
Amberion
This is actually not true.
What happened is IBM published there bios API specs and people copied them. Phionex bios was the first clean room Bios ever made. They basically took a bunch of programers who never saw IBM's source code for the bios and put them in a room with the specs and said "MAKE IT WORK!" That's what happened.

Frosty840
Any argument Sony had against emulation went out of the window when they allowed the publication of the Final Fantasy Classics games, which are all emulations of the original SNES ROMs.
This is erroneous.. they are PORTS of the Original SNES code to the Sony Playstation using the original sprite art work files etc. That's all they are NOT EMULATED. It's a port huge difference :)

However..
Sony bought and distributed in Feb of 1999 an emulator when they had production difficulties on the initial systems for developers on the PS2. Cygnus systems wrote it to run on high End PCS and workstations. The emulator was about 1/100th or 1/1000th of the speed of a PS2, however it did allow the developers to develope games quickly (See reduced polygon counts and frame skipping) because of a lack of anything else to develope using. Bottom line is Sony HAD to use an emulator for the titles the year of the PS2's initial release to get something to developers so there would be games for there platform.

I believe the real problem lies with the CEO's control problem, he seems to be the kind of man who wants to control everything around him. Hence lawsuits.. proprietary BETA MAX video tape going by by and many other things that Sony has done that went that way. Sony also tends to make things that are hard to repair (IE you have to almost buy a new one if they break). Sony makes great equipement and has excelent technical staff.. it's behavior toward other people is a reflection of the person in charge.. enough said about it.

As for a cloned bios, that's what VGS and Bleem did, they take the Bios calls and emulate them so that calls to the bios functions skip using real MIPS R3000 code in the Playstation bios. They directly execute high level functions natively on your computer in the PSX emulator. This allows for things like reading the memory cards, accessing the CDROM etc. I believe FPSE (the code I have for it at least does) had some preliminary work done in this area, however it was buggy and hadn't progressed very far. IE it didn't work on anything but demos. I spent a few weeks working on getting it to work (I use Linux IE no plugins for it at the time ;) ). I did eliminate a few bugs but it was not easy. Bleem and VGS did a good job at this probably because they tackled this problem first before getting anything else to work.

Cyb
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I thought it was Compaq who developed the first clone PC BIOS. IBM took them to court, and the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Compaq, setting the precedent for "Clean Room" techniques.

Anyway, it appears that the idea is a good one: just tough to accomplish. I'd love to see it happen, though.
 

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it still be nice to have a clean homemade bios for all those poeple who don't own a psx (too bad great system). this would prevent any breaking of the law and dirty concionces:D :D
 

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BTW seems that PSinex take the WhosAsking idea and had the bios emulated, I hope that the next version of ePSXe have the BIOS emulated too ;)
 
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