[Cid Highwind]

Like throwing away those embryo's will save their 'lives'

If he will allow this research it might eventually save lives, I hope he's wise enough to realise that.

 

[Cid Highwind]

Taking one life? What I heard on the news was that they would use embryo's that were leftovers... that would be thrown away anyway. If they would be harvesting and using women for embryos like we use cows for milk, I will definately be against it as well.
But if they are going to throw those embryos away, they don't have the opportunity to live anyway, so why don't use them for a good cause and help them to let others live?

Imagine if YOU had a genetic oddity which was causing you to produce antibodies to some horrible virus, for the sake of horrible lets say HIV. Now that's all good and fine but inorder for it to be useful they have to extract it all from you which would leave you dead. Do you think that situation is alright where the government just says "kill him" for the lives of people you probably don't care about?

Like I said, those embryos don't even have a chance to live. They are going to be dead soon, without even knowing they might have even had a chance to live. And that's a complete different sitiuation than the one you describe. And I don't think the government has the right to say I am allowed to live or I should die.

 

[Cid Highwind]

There is no moral issue with that, the moral issue comes with what naturally follows that, and where these embryos came from to begin with (but that's beside the point). What I fear is human nature and its lack of "common" sense. Normally I would be willing to give humanity the benefit of the doubt, but not here, not in this age.

This is the only area where I might stand against new technology, where it would logically take the lives of those who are not willing or have no wills of their own in its next steps. If someone made a choice to die and give stem cells, that would be different (and disturbing), but embryos cannot make such a choice.

Because they don't even know what's happening and therefor will not feel pain, and will not realise what's going on or what they could become whenever they would be granted life.

 

[Cid Highwind]

How you remind me of my own optimistic self Elly

If they change, then more bonus for me. If they don't then so be it. There is no point forcing someone to live because he will take the very first chance to end his life , it's a waste of time and resources.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean we have to give up from the beginning. There should be an effort given to delight/encourage/help that person. Should that not work then what one can do? The rest is between him and god IMO.

I am not one to give up on something easily, especially not on persons. (love thread anyone )
Funny how on the other side I do agree with Boltz as well, being a bit caught in the middle, because I am pro euthanasia and pro abortion (anyone, plz don't give me the 'because you're dutch' stuff )

Basicly my point about the blob of cells stuff is that I don't mind these embyo's being used. Since they don't know what's going on, so who will get 'hurt'? As long as they aren't taken fom mothers who don't want it. To me it doesn't matter about 'who it's going to be'. If my own mother chose to do the same with me, she wouldn't know who or what I'd become, and I wouldn't even know I was there in the first place. Would anyone miss me, no. Would it be a loss to the world? Perhaps

 

[Cid Highwind]

Oh come on, for once can we leave the war out of this (Fawlty Towers sketch comes to mind ) it will only lead this thread to a lock.

I OBJECT! what if u kill one human but the human ur making doesn'tlive..then u've lost two humans...is the price worth it? plus we are already over populated...and at the rate of human increase and tree decrease..we'll all die from lack of oxygen....so ...yeah...that's all i have to say about that.k

What exactly do you mean with 'but the human ur making doesn't live' ? Did you mean to point out at some kind of risk new treatment might bring which can cause medical mistakes which will cost lives?

that might be true if bush was up for reelection. Since he's in his second term he's got no one to impress. He's completely free to do what he wish and move the country in the direction he believes is right. This veto would come from him 100%. Not his "culture of life" buddies

History told me that honour can be a big thing to presidents. So I can imagine that for the sake of his own honour, Bush doesn't want to let down the group that supported him during election. But about American politics. I'm not that familiar with the system. But there is some kind of house with representatives who are there in name of the people as well isn't there? Are they elected as well? Cause if so, I find it a bad thing if one person can abort something such as this while others that have been elected as well approved it.

 

[Cid Highwind]

I guess Bush and most people who consider anything that came from an ovum human never tought of it like this:Would you kill a few people now to save many later or would you not kill them and make many more die

I still consider all stem cells as cells parts of a human rather than the whole

Well if you put it that way:
Bush got in to war thus sacrificing lives in order to make the world safer (WMD's)
By that logic why not sacrifice a few 'lifes' by allowing these experiments to save more lifes in future.

Just some random thoughts