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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.betterhumans.com/News/news.aspx?articleID=2004-10-13-4

"Mothers of homosexual men and their female relatives appear to be more fertile, providing support for a genetic basis of homosexuality by explaining how "gay genes" survive."

I hope this makes some people think better before saying that homossexuality is "unnatural" or anything like this. I've seen this fallacious argument too many times - even in these forums. (And even if it were "unnatural", this would be no argument against it - just a naturalistic fallacy.)

But the research suggests that this increased fertility is not the sole cause, not even the major cause:

Still, the researchers estimate that the maternal effect accounted for just 14% of homosexuality and that birth order accounted for just 6.7%. This means that about 79% of homosexuality's origin is unknown, leaving room for many other influences, both biological and cultural.

"It is clear that our findings, if confirmed by further research, are only one piece in a much larger puzzle on the nature of human sexuality," the researchers say.
BTW, before someone makes this stupid straw man argument (I've been a victim of it before), I'm not suggesting that everyone should become homossexual or anything - I'm just stating facts. And no, I'm not gay :p
 

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And this further reinforces my theory that Homosexuality is Plan E from nature for whiping out humanity :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Proto said:
And this further reinforces my theory that Homosexuality is Plan E from nature for whiping out humanity :lol:
I fail to see how, since it increases fertility of the female relatives, making up for the decreased fertility resulting from the homossexual male. Given some time it would evolve into an evolutionarily stable strategy (ESS), yielding an optimal rate between homossexuals and heterossexuals (for this kind of dynamics, see what happens to haplodiploid organisms, like the Hymenopteran insects).

EDIT: I know you were being sarcastic, but I couldn't keep myself from replying :p
 

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"It is clear that our findings,if confirmed by further research, (meaning that It's unconfirmed yet), are only one piece in a much larger puzzle on the nature of human sexuality ( wee, this is nothing, we still have a lot to discover and understand :))," the researchers say.

It doesnt indicate if those Parents are gays themselves ( or if they contain those genes or not, it only indicated that their offsprings are gay).

Anyways, interesting....

edit : OK, seems like "Indeed, evidence has suggested that gay genes lie on part of the X chromosome that mothers pass to their offspring."

So the mothers now are the troublemakers eh? :p

Yours,
-Elly
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
エッリー said:
"It is clear that our findings,if confirmed by further research, (meaning that It's unconfirmed yet),
They're talking about people replicating their experiment and finding the same results.

エッリー said:
wee, this is nothing, we still have a lot to discover and understand :))
That's why I've quoted this here. Science is all about research and discovery, isn't it? This is just one of the first steps.

エッリー said:
It doesnt indicate if those Parents are gays themselves ( or if they contain those genes or not, it only indicated that their offsprings are gay).
The parents were not gay themselves, they just passed the genes for homossexuality to their offspring. The genetic origin can be confirmed by quantitative methods - and the literature has shown time and again a positive correlation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Player-X said:
I wonder does this have anything to do with high estrogen levels?
Not necessarily. Most homossexuals have normal hormonal leves (although some brain dimorphisms were found).
The hormone problem is most poignant in the case of transgenders .
 

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Bring science into anything and automatically call it a fact.
 

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this "research" study seems a bit silly to me.. farrrr too many strong conclusions! Looks like they just made a big family tree and checked who was gay and saw oooh looky here more gay guys on mom's side there ya go it's x-linked! Suuure :p
On a more scientific note: They have found that gay men have a small difference in a certain part of the brain (one "nucleus" is the size of a woman's i believe)
So still no certainty if it's genetic, in the womb, psychological (brain develops like that as a kid? who knows!)
 

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Instead of saying "Gay Genes" cause increased fertility, try seeing it as "Increased Fertility Genes" cause gay. This actually makes intuitive sense (although intuition is not always correct :p)!
 

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WindHydra said:
Instead of saying "Gay Genes" cause increased fertility, try seeing it as "Increased Fertility Genes" cause gay. This actually makes intuitive sense (although intuition is not always correct :p)!

HAHAHA good one :lol:

nowadays the number of children in a family depends more on planning than on fertility.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
WindHydra said:
Instead of saying "Gay Genes" cause increased fertility, try seeing it as "Increased Fertility Genes" cause gay. This actually makes intuitive sense (although intuition is not always correct :p)!
The headlines sound better when you write "gay genes". It generates more heat :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
WindHydra said:
I know, but the other way makes more sense ;)
I don't think so, really.
Because if you truly understands evolution, you'll know that all genes are selected because of the effect they have on fertility rates (there're a few exceptions, but they're not important here).

For instance, genes that have increased our brain size (it has tripled since the dawn of men) were selected because general intelligence has an impact on our long-term survival, increasing our offspring.

So, do you think that we should say "fertility genes cause bigger brains"?. Not really. If you wanted to be really technical you should say that "reproduction success rate is increased in the presence of genes that increase brain size".
 

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... What the hell are you talking about......
For the case you mentioned, the logic is Bigger Brain > Higher Survival Rate > More Offspring = Fertility.
But for the case I brought up, the logic is Femininity = Increased Fertility > Gay.
These two are clearly not the same. Not everything can be reversed :/
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
WindHydra said:
... What the hell are you talking about......
For the case you mentioned, the logic is Bigger Brain > Higher Survival Rate > More Offspring = Fertility.
But for the case I brought up, the logic is Femininity = Increased Fertility > Gay.
These two are clearly not the same. Not everything can be reversed :/
Your assumption is wrong. It's not true that "Femininity = Increased Fertility > Gay.", or at least that is not what is implied in the research.

It's just said that "genotype X" when found in males leads to homossexual behavior, while "genotype X" when in a female body leads to increased fertility.

Both fenotypes were caused by the underlying "genotype X" (I'm talking about several genes here, possibly linked). So, it's up to you how you say it. I would maintain my choice of "gay genes", beucase homossexual behavior is the most visible phenotype. The increased fertility is not directly observable, except as a statistical phenomenon.
 

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Hmm... I'm kind of living proof of this. I'm gay and my mom was pregnant with male twins before me but she had a miscarriage.
 

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Proto said:
Could you specify what do you mean? You are hardly making any sense.
It's a joke. You could say that mentally retaded people never become gay and people not beleive it and then say the same thing again only adding some scientific words and it will sound like a fact.
 
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