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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, my fat PS2 died recently (right in the middle of an FF8 game), so I got ePSXe 1.7 up and running, daemon tools to rip & mount ISO's, etc etc.

Everything in the game itself works, and displays fairly well, I'm not having issues with the game loading from the ISO, no game-breaking glitches, etc.

What I'm having problems with is getting card game rules to abolish/spread properly. Another issue is with the Queen of Cards sidequest.

First things first - the abolish/spreading of rules issue.

Without fail, after about 80 different tries (either from a memory card load, or a save state), I will always get the same exact rule to abolish/spread. There is no proper variance in how it happens, it's always the same. Case in point, in Disc 1, just before getting to Galbadia Garden, you have the chance to explore Dollet after some events in Timber. I had spread Open from Balamb, and was carrying Timber's rules.

I get to Dollet, and this series of events always happens...
1) Challenge a card player, with the "combine rules" blurb.
2) Get to the card rules screen, choose "quit"
3) Nothing happens, so re-challenge with the combine rules blurb.
4) Choose quit again
5) Open has spread throughout Dollet.

It doesn't matter what other variables I try to play with, like which card player I'm trying, how many card games won/lost, how many battles fought, which characters I have, what their junctions are, how much time has passed, how much gil I have, ePSXe settings (changing the BIOS, changing video/sound settings, running the game from the disc instead of ISO). Nothing. It's always the same. No biggy, PEC can fix up the card rules, I just don't want to have to cheat.


Second up, the Queen of Cards issue.

This seems to be tied in some way to the RNG failing variance with the rule spreading. The Queen of Cards starts out every game in Balamb, normal. I got her to send herself to Dollet on the first try losing a card to her. Great, I figure.

So I get to the point near the end of Disc 1, going to lose Sacred to her so it will open up a different card elsewhere. Without fail, from Dollet, she always chooses to go to Galbadia (Deling City). She should have a set % chance to go to various places, but again after many reloads (from memory card or save state), she ALWAYS chooses Galbadia. Again I played with every variable I could think of, but to no avail, she always goes to Galbadia.


So what I'm getting at, is that if I were on a console, I would at least see variance here with these aspects of the game. All I know that can explain these things is either extremely strange luck (unlikely), or ePSXe having some sort of bug with an RNG that determines these things.

Can anyone help?
 

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This sounds more like a playthrough specific issue,... i never had an ounce of problems spreading rules in FF8 on epsxe.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hmm...
I'm following a walkthrough (somewhat loosely) from gamefaqs.com (the "power up" walkthough).

The only thing I'm doing differently is using a PEC code to make sure my experience gained per battle is 0 (makes the hassle of staying low leveled much easier). And yes, I've tried loading the game without PEC and it still gets the same stuff happening.
 

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have you tried other emulators?
 

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I had a similar issue with FF7 chocobo breading there should have been some variaty but no matter the load times (both memcard & save states) results were the same and on my ps one they vary from time to time the only logical explanation i could get bring myself to understand from this was that since epsxe is a program (and not a console) it may choose in some random scenario the most easy aproach info (in my case was the blue chocobo i think :lol: in your case the queen going to galbadia) hope it makes sense what i just righted i'm quite tired at this hour thinking of going to sleap :lol: also fenrir dont stay low lvl to much at some point it backfires :lol:

PS: since i just so jonc post in my case i tried pSX but results were the same
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Haven't tried other emulators yet, I've got one of the stickies of this forum in another window and will probably try them out when I got the time (got a WoW raid coming up within a couple hours and probably won't have time to get back to this until later).

Which one of the many other emulators would you suggest?

:lol: also fenrir dont stay low lvl to much at some point it backfires :lol:
nah, with the amount of card games I've done I have access to really powerful junctions, all I'm waiting for really is an Abilityx4 GF (and/or Rosetta Stone) so I can start leveling people up with Str/Vit/Mag/Spr Bonus equipped.

That's what makes it a pain in the ass - if it IS a playthrough specific thing, I'm going to throw my computer at a wall or something trying to get all those cards refined for all the junctions I've gotten.
 

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try PSX, it doesnt use a plugin system so setting it up and getting the game running on it should be fairly straightforward. the other one i usually suggest is PCSX (not PCSX2). your save states will not work with either of them though, you will have to rely on your memory card saves,
 

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I am playing FFVIII (PAL) on pSX 1.13, but am only 10 hours in and I haven't reached the point you describe so I can't help. I will keep an eye out for it though.

As mentioned in the previous post memory card saves from ePSXe and pSX are compatible.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
OK, I didn't test it at all, but using pSX I was able to get Queen of Cards to send herself to Dollet from FH. That was only 1 try though, like I said I didn't test it at all.

I got her to go to FH by losing the Chicobo card to her, but as described in many walkthrough's of the game on many other sites, the only way to get her to progress the sidequest is to return her to Dollet and query about her painter father.

So, as I said my only saves (without going back about 10 hours) were at that point, with her at FH. I could test it at that point, by losing a rare card to her and seeing where she goes in ePSXe & pSX, but that seems kind of like a hassle.

The important thing is that while using pSX, I lost Chicobo to her, so she had the card for that part of the quest, but she went to FH. At FH, I lost Angelo to her, and she went to Dollet. I asked her there about the card, it progresses, I play her and win back Angelo, she sends herself off to Balamb (yay). I win back Chicobo from her brother/kid whatever, then go win Chubby Chocobo off the guy in B-Garden.

My next opportunity to really test her out will be after I have the next card fo her (Alexander I think...).

I can't easily test out card rules right now either until I progress a bit - the PEC codes I used got almost all the areas I can access on Disc 2 to be Open.
I think when I get to Esthar or Lunar Gate, I can try out things on pSX and compare to ePSXe - I haven't used any PEC codes to alter the rules in those areas yet.

The short answer on this so far is: I can't confirm it with 100% certainty, but when I progress a bit further I'll be able to really do some extensive tests. Unfortunately that isn't until I'm in Disc 3 (which is right around the corner, I'm almost done with Disc 2, but getting to Esthar or Lunar gate might take some time).

Well I got to a point in Disc 3 now where I can try exchanging rules, this time the target area being Centra (Edea, specifically).

After about 10 tries loading from memory card, I got the same results each time while using pSX.

/sigh.

Not a big deal as card rules can be manipulated in ePSXe using PEC codes, will post results the next opportunity I have to fiddle with the Queen of Cards (the other oddity I've been having).
 

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The problem with random numbers is you can't really predict them, that's why they're called Random. If you flip a coin 9 times, and get heads each time, your chances for getting tails on the next try isn't any better than when you started, to believe otherwise is usually called the gambler's fallacy.

FF8 has occasionally done something similar to me, but it is pretty easy to break out of. Load the game, fight a random battle or two, save the game, then try the Queen of Cards again. This won't guarantee you the results you want, but at least the RNG will definitely be in a different state.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well yeah, I'm resolving the Queen of Cards thing as we speak (about to do the last one to give her and claim back Doomtrain & hunt down Phoenix card) - so that bit may have been just really bad luck (though the amount of tries I did way back on disc 1 is daunting, still you point out a valid thing there lastgen).

Though there's still something up with rule exchanging, which is a non-issue with PEC codes (except I couldn't find any to alter Lunar Gate's rules, had to put up with doing it the old fashioned way to get Alexander from Piet & Laguna from Ellone, which didn't take long regardless).
 

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I just finished playing FF8 and I did not have this issue. Rule abolishing and Card Queen relocation was only a matter reloading (from memory card) for me. I know this doesn't really help, but I can assure you the emulator gives no problems with the FF8 card game. My guess is either bad luck, or maybe you are not doing it right (we all make mistakes).
 

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indeed i dont think epsxe or any emulator for that matter would affect the gameplay like this.
 

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I'm having the same problem as Fenriradramelk, I thought I'd use the PEC to fix it.
But I can't get the PEC to work.
I have the PAL Version of FF8 - I see no option of altering the card rules in the PEC interface.

Help wanted.
Cheers.

Edit:
I found this.
"...Start your game and get in game play.
Start pec, click the jump to game into drive, option of which your game is in.
You're game should show up, if it doesn't it usually means that the version
of your game is not in the list. So find your game title in the list
if it doesn't come up on it's own. 99.99% of the time the codes will work anyway..."

at http://www.emuxhaven.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6487

I play with ISO instead of cd. When I choose my mounted drive, it says "Drive B is not ready, Please insert a psx cd into drive B and close the tray"
Do I have to burn the iso? They can't actually mean the original psx cd right?

Edit 2:
I went outside of Dollet, fought a battle then I saved on another slot.
Once I went inside Dollet again I got "Elemental was Abolished"
So Maybe its just completely random?
 

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People make a common mistake with the RNG into thinking that the RNG changes the moment you load from a Memory Card save, but there are times where it just gets stuck. If you want to force the RNG to move on, go fight some random battles, do something else, sell stuff in town, anything that alters the game from the last time you attempted it. Mainly fighting helps the most, then Save your game again, and reload that Save, then try again.
 

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Decided to play this game via ePSXe recently, and having the same card game issue. I've managed to get different results by going back to Timber to play a couple games, going back, and getting a different result once, before the RNG gets stuck again. It's getting to be tedious. I just can't manage to break the sequence. It always goes back to four tries of do-nothing, then on the fifth, spreads Same. The only reason I'm playing on an emulator is because my computer is at the other end of the house from my tv/psx and I'm lazy. But it looks like I'll have to play on console if this keeps up.
 

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Did you try all the things I mentioned above?

Either I'm lucky (Not really considering it took several reloads for me, even on the actual console), or you're doing something wrong or you're just not trying hard enough.

On the console I had to reload 20 times at one point before I finally got it, and yes I did change the RGN constantly in between. It has nothing to do with the emulator, most of it is just based on luck and whether you make the RNG change.
 

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I did try everything. I can get it to change, if I always play games in Timber in between attempts. But... that's incredibly time consuming compared to my games on console where I never had this problem. I'm not blaming the emulator by any means, but it is odd. If I just forget card games until disc 3 where I can get everywhere on the Ragnarok, I can make it less time consuming. But it looks like that's the only thing that's going to break this cycle. I suppose I can just try it for 20-30 times with plain resetting and see if it eventually breaks on its own. I'll try that and post back with results.

edit: one thing that does make it look really odd is the fact that the conditions are so precise. the first four attempts are ALWAYS nothing, with the fifth being the same rule spreading. i don't know how the game is calculating the chance of a change happening, maybe if i knew that, it wouldn't be so odd.

edit edit: soft reset doesn't really like to work on emu, whether its because of the keys i've mapped the buttons to overlapping to emulator hotkeys, or because of keyboard quadrants, i'm not sure which. any ideas? the gamepad i have is a piece of crap, so i generally prefer the keyboard whenever possible.
 

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it works exactly as it does on the PSX
 

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Just spent exactley SEVEN full days (well, all my spare time outside of work) trying to abolish the random rule in Dollet on Disk 1 after the Forest Owls mission.

Had tried everything, random encounters, skipping turns in battle, back and forth to timber to 're-carry' rule, playing random card games around Timber, running round a whole lot, card-modding, gaining AP for GF's and carding enemies to not gain XP, and the age old method of consitently resetting, in addition to trying about 120 tries EACH on different Dollet charachters to try to abolish the bloody random rule!! I even progressed the story a little and returned to this challenge with no luck

This morning, I though F* it... i'll see if I can get a grip on the random rule and play it... headed over to Dollet pub, challenged the queen so I could try to at least spread the DIFF rule, she asked me to mix rules, tried her and first time ... BANG!! Random abolished...

Headed back to Timber, ra-carried spread... back to Dollet and 2 failed attempts on the queen to abolish elemental, headed to the hotel and the Bell-end girl abolished the elemental rule on the first try!!

Unbeilable... 7 days i have been doing this... felt good though lol!! Bloody RNG...

(playing on the PSP by the way)
 
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