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band
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
a question to the knowledgable ppl here on the forums.

i was just wondering what kind of technical role the ps2's edram plays in terms of games running on the ps2. do games (especially the ones that look like they push the system to the max, ie GT4....God of War) push this part of the hardware to the max? just to quote sony's playstation spec page:

Embedded DRAM: 4MB
DRAM Bus Bandwidth: 48GB per second
DRAM Bus Width: 2,560 bits
the 48 gb per second itself is quite a number now (and even more so when ps2 was first released), and 2560 bits is just frightening.oO

the reason i ask is i was wondering on how feasible it has been until here to emulate the ps2 on PC hardware without having this kind of hardware on the PC. extrapolating, i basically want to answer the question of how possible it is to emulate the ps2 on ps3 (or anything), where kutaragi has already stated there wud be no edram present on the console?
 

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band
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
if this was stupid, someone please tell me >.<

but i really want to have this answered...
 

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I dont think so. You have to think about it like this, Currently were is the bottle neck for pcsx2. its in the main cpus. the mem speed at this point doesnt make much differnce. Also, dont bump your posts. its against the rules.
 

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band
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
im sorry i dont know who you are. an emu author? wat r u basing your answer from?

Also, dont bump your posts. its against the rules.
sorry, i got impatient and i promise i won't do it again. is there another place i shud be asking my question ?
 

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PCSX2 Coder
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i on the other hand am a pcsx2 dev and yes memory bandwidth is a big problem for us, it will improve over time but at the moment we will have to make do with what we have
 

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band
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thank you for the prompt answer refraction and chaoscode as well. in other words, cpu is a big problem and so is memory bandwidth. for the cpus, i think they'll prolly put in compared to the ones inside pstwo's an even smaller unified EE/GS chip into the ps3. but im still scratching my head as to how they'll work out the memory bandwidth thing if they still plan on not using edram....
 

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band
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
why would mem clock speed make a difference in emulation....from the beginning this discussion was about bandwidth. -.- but anyway.

I thought the EDRAM was a part of the GS core so wouldn't that mean that it would retain it on the PS3, even if PS3 games don't use it?
i believe that is true as well. however, Kutaragi has explained that there will be no edram present on the ps3 =.=. the purpose of this discussion was to ascertain if at this point, pc full speed emulation of the ps2 is at all feasible with no edram-bandwidth-like memory. this seems to be the case on the ps3 (according to released specs there are high bandwidth interfaces, but nothing similar to the 4meg EDRAM.

if i can get a solid answer, i guess we can start guessing if the ps3 will have a GS+EE chip with embedded edram or perhaps predict if the RSX will get EDRAM tacked on like the Xenos.
 

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sigh, becuase you said and I quote

"what kind of technical role the ps2's edram plays in terms of games running on the ps2."

"the reason i ask is i was wondering on how feasible it has been until here to emulate the ps2 on PC hardware without having this kind of hardware on the PC"

The Bandwidth the actually ps2 memorry carries make no differnce on the emulator becuase not matter what we are gonna make the emulator go as fast as it can go. I said clock speed when I ment refuring to timming the memorry to the EE or IOP. The amount of bandwidth it can do it directly related to the clock speed.
 

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band
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
in my original msg, it was obvious to refraction and myself that i was referring to bandwidth because i made reference to only bandwidth, and not once to timings, clocks, or latencies (though it was good of you to point that out....do ps2 programmers never code to the metal so that they take advantage of timings and other hardware quirks anymore???)

perhaps if u bothered to quote the rest of my msg

...the 48 gb per second itself is quite a number now (and even more so when ps2 was first released),...

extrapolating, i basically want to answer the question of how possible it is to emulate the ps2 on ps3 (or anything), where kutaragi has already stated there wud be no edram present on the console?
u wud have realized that i was trying to answer at this point whether or not emulation allows us to overcome what edram allows ps2 programmers to do (abuse of bandwidth, certain ps2 hardware specific tricks that take advantage of edram, etc). the impression im getting now is that as of now, home coders are unable to do so. but the important question is is this an impossible thing to do if one is provided full ps2 documentation and PA charts and reports (impossible as in the impossible from an impossible problem -.- to make myself clear.)
 
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