[magiceyes118]

one question before did any of the pcsx2 authors get approached by sony for developing some sort of emu for the ps3 (to play ps2 games on it)? ok now going back to the main point seeing the progress u guys r making, realistically will pcsx2 will be ever fast enough to run commercial games, also wat needs to be implemented or ideas to make it faster? i remeber corn using that static recompilation or osmething have u explored the ideas?

 

[CKemu]

It's not PCSX2 thats at fault, it's your perception of speed. PCSX2 is running fast, for the machines available to it. When future machines come out, it will become more playable.

If ePSXe was started in the 300-400MHz era you'd be all whining ePSXe is slow, but look nowadays, w00 fast (400 FPS + with no lmitation on), note the difference, ePSXe hasn't changed, machines have.

You may also note we have eeREC and vuREC (REC = recompiler). eeREC handles the emotion engine, and vuREC handles vector unit (the most resource using aspect of the PS2).

So in short, yes, infact one day PCSX2 will run games like FFX / DMC3 at 1000 FPS....but you're just gonna have to wait for a long long long long long long time for machines to catch up

I am pretty sure the SONY team have PS2 / PS1 backwards compat well and truly sorted by now for the PS3, and I doubt if they'd like us working for them, though I could certainly hope, gimme money, money money!!

 

[guenthar]

They did the same thing with psx emulation saying you had too have a much faster system then what was out then but now you can play psx games fine with the same kind of system they were saying would be too slow for it.

If it's true that you will have too wait for future systems then you will never be able too play ps2 games at full speed with pcsx 2 unless they go and rewrite the program and make it multithreaded. Soon you won't be able too get anything faster without going with muliple cpu's or multicore cpu's.

 

[RF]

If ePSXe was started in the 300-400MHz era you'd be all whining ePSXe is slow, but look nowadays, w00 fast (400 FPS + with no lmitation on), note the difference, ePSXe hasn't changed, machines have.

Uh, no epsxe will run a 300-400mhz machine with a Geforce2 or even a Voodoo card (<3 Lewpy's).

As its been stated before, pcsx2 has to be completed first before the team can fully focus on speedups and optimization of code. Of course maybe we should wait for an actual developer to answer your question

 

[ChankastRules]

Well, there's no limit to how fast things can be emulated, theoretically one could write a recompiler that translated everything, kind of like vurecs and eeRec and save it all to the hard drive as a file.. so that it won't have to be done everytime you run.... but it was discussed in another thread just how complicated it'd be to do that.

As for speed well, if they keep up optimizing, from like 1 fps to 30 fps like they have done now... who knows PCSX 2 team rules either way!

 

[FLaRe85]

Uh, no epsxe will run a 300-400mhz machine with a Geforce2 or even a Voodoo card (<3 Lewpy's).

As its been stated before, pcsx2 has to be completed first before the team can fully focus on speedups and optimization of code. Of course maybe we should wait for an actual developer to answer your question

Disclaimer: CKemu may or may not know what he's talking about in any given post.

 

[CKemu]

Ya kidding, heh I got an old rig laying around, I'll have to try ePSXe on it. (I started ePSXe with a 1.2GHz / GeForce 2GTS..ahh them where days!)

Anyhow my point was to demonstrate that as time progresses, machines get faster, thus in essance, the answer to his question "Will PCSX2 ever be fast enough to play Commercial games at full speed?", yes, when the 'machines' running PCSX2 are fast enough.

Sure you can optimise PCSX2 further, and vuREC / rCaching are not complete yet, so there is certainly room for a speed improvement, but people seem to have this illusion that "well when they optimise it" it'll run fast (or reasonable) on even current day machines.

Even with the most stable build of vuREC, some games reach, 10 FPS max. When I say 'some' games, I can list if you wish

Everblue
Gran Turismo 3
Gran Turismo 4
GTA III
Harvest Moon
King of Fighters - Maximun Impact
Monster Hunter G
Outlaw Golf 2
Ridge Racer 5
Rumble Roses
Saint Seiya Chapter Sanctuary
Tekken Tag Tournament
Tekken 4
XGIII - Extreme G Racing

etc etc etc etc etc

Anyhow, we could speculate, but that'd be against the forum rules:

We DO NOT KNOW what the minimium specs are yet, don't waste your time asking, or speculating.

 

[D.Strange]

Uh, no epsxe will run a 300-400mhz machine with a Geforce2 or even a Voodoo card (<3 Lewpy's).

Yeah, i remember that time clear enough - i was playing in FF8 on my Celeron466/96Mb/VooDoo3 with full speed... So ePSXe was fast enough for 400Mhz machines era, its just what in that time CPUs was increasing they power really damn fast(P1_200Mhz jump to PII400 in no time, as PIII1Ghz to P4_2.4Ghz ) but now we have some kind of big CPU progress slowdown, now we like in I286-I486 era, progress in CPU section isn`t really impressivee coz we have reached technical limit in old scheme *boost speed with increasing number of Mhz* and now we have ~3Ghz CPUs and we stuck with that for long time,coz if to think clearly in normal situations we just don`t need more CPU power than that, and now we have 1 or 2 new generations of video cards in year in exchange -_-
So i think too, what it will be a really or looooooooooooooooooong way to fast PS2 emulation, or pcsx2 coders will make a miracle with optimizations for new\future cpu technologies and features...

 

[refraction]

You want a dev's answer so here i am ;p others are obviously too lazy to answer

PCSX2 one day when emulation is complete, will improve in speed, on the same machine you are on you might see a 50% speed boost or maybe more, i cant say yet, altho that sounds a lot, im talking from 10fps to 15fps or 20fps on a game.

as CK said ePSXe was a whole different kettle of fish. dont quote me on this but AFAIK the PS1 had just the 1 cpu with 2-3 sub processint units for sound and graphics etc, and they were all relitavely slow speed, not to mention it was more 64bit architecture and not 128bit. Then you have to remember the ps2 has 3 Processors, Vector Unit (not a cpu as such but its very much like one) the IOP (basically a PS1 central processor) and the EE Core, which is the PS2 main processor. Now a combination of 128bit, 3 processors + 3 (ish) sub processing units for sound, graphics (yes the vector unit is seperate from the graphics synthesiser (GS)) that is a hell of a lot of work to do.

Let me put this in perspective.
lets say a PC's memory transfers 3gb a second and the processor transfers say 20gb a second, that sounds pretty fast right?
Enable all logging except VUMicro on PCSX2, thats 1 line per function, at 0.01fps, the hard drive racks up 3gb within 10 minutes, thats 6 frames that have past. that means at 60fps (most games full speed) thats 30gb a second.

then you have to think, the Vector unit during a 3d game takes up 90% of the processing time, so in essence, that 30gb a second is only 10% of what needs to be transferred, so that equals 300gb a second in total.

find a modern pc that transfers that a second, and you will have a fast ps2 emu

 

[magiceyes118]

well i think u guys r doing a great job, but as a developer the programming is also important not only the hardware? maybe re-engineering some aspects of the ps2 LOL don't flameme like bleem did with the ps1

 

[refraction]

well i think u guys r doing a great job, but as a developer the programming is also important not only the hardware? maybe re-engineering some aspects of the ps2 LOL don't flameme like bleem did with the ps1

we can only optimise so much, the hardware must be capable to run what we can give it, you can expect us to make the emu as fast as the ps2 really is, on equivilant hardware, that would be impossible. maybe when we start seeing 5ghz pc's ps2 emulation will be at a reasonable speed throughout most games, altho things are comming along with the prementioned recompilers.

 

[magiceyes118]

i just want to say thanks for ur guys insight

 

[Dogmaan]

The more detailed explanations clear a lot of things up for techies like me so thanks for any of the more indepth posts.
I think it is mainly wishful thinking and dreaming that one day you might just drop a version of pcsx2 on us that will work at full speed, but people have been following pcsx2 since 1.4ghz pcs with noobs going "ffx doesnt work", one day we will be able to tell noobs when they have there 6ghz quad cores "yes you can run ffx on pcsx2 and stop posting about pcsx3, it cant run killzone2 yet".

 

[General Plot]

I think seeing FFX at 35+ fps (although many textures missing) gives reason for hope, don't you? We never really will know till it's fully compatible and optimized, but I'm guessing given the current performance, 5Ghz CPU's may be realistic to view as a recommended spec later on. Just look at the kind of rig it takes to decently emulate a Sega Saturn. And it's not nearly as complicated as a PS2.

P.S. W00t W00t, 500 posts.

 

[Simple]

Doe's sony company have a full working ps2 emulator for game development?

 

[refraction]

Doe's sony company have a full working ps2 emulator for game development?

i dont think so no, due to the complexity of the console, i imagine they just use the Debug consoles which are given to sony licensed developers

 

[CKemu]

Indeed, developers get the DTL-H series of consoles. They play DVDr / CDr media (eg a dev burns the game to disc, and can pop it straight in). They have 2x the normal amount of RAM, and come with various debug tools, utilities etc.

The only time I have heard of a 'confirmed' emulators being used for development was for the PSP and DS, but the emulators got scrapped very early on due to being incomplete, in-accurate, too slow, and where passed over for the more favoured HW solutions.

 

[guenthar]

Unless some miracle happens (which is very unlikly) you will never see a 5ghz system unless it is a different architecture so either pcsx2 will have too be rewritten as a multithreaded application (or architecture) or pcsx2 will never be able too run most games at full speed.

PS. I have known for years that they would reach a wall when it comes too the ghz a cpu can go.)

 

[ChaosCode]

Unless some miracle happens (which is very unlikly) you will never see a 5ghz system unless it is a different architecture so either pcsx2 will have too be rewritten as a multithreaded application (or architecture) or pcsx2 will never be able too run most games at full speed.

PS. I have known for years that they would reach a wall when it comes too the ghz a cpu can go.)

thank you for telling us the future! wow were did u learn how to do this! I wanna learn! I need mon1ezzzzzzzz OMG WTF LOL HI HI!!!!!!!!! GO TEAM GOOOOO!!!!

it is a matter of fact NO one, not even you, knowns what is or isnt going to happen. Some day pcsx2 will be able to play games at full speed and I don't think anyone will ever do a TOTAL rewrite.

 

[TWave]

I also think that PCSX2 will be playable at full speed. But the speed will be improbed when 64bits, MultyThread, and speed optimization reach to the emu.

Cos I think as Guenthar, the actual x86 CAN'T pass the 5Ghz limit. If they pass 4.5Ghz it would be a miracle.