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Knowledge is the solution
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That happens every third monday in China to sites like Youtube, Wikipedia, Wikileaks and similar. It will be back in 2 weaks and no one will notice till they are censored again.
 

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lazy shmupper
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The censorship and legendary 'great firewall of china' are nothing. I used to live in China for my studies and I saw reality: the common user will not not notice and even care, right, but don't think the young'uns do not know how to get what they want on the internet.
They use proxies, p2p, ftps, and many other means to get past what is merely a poor filtering on the chinese network.
This is where I first learned how to find 'alternative paths' on the internet, and I was taught by chinese pals. No big deal.
The authorities know about that of course but can't do much against it, 100 of millions of internet addicted people with a strong culture of piracy and hacking can't be monitored efficiently. :D
China is not North Korea. :rotflmao:

EDIT: The problem with freedom of speech and information in China doesn't only lie in the fact that information is a bit harder to obtain or the fear of repression, but more in that most people don't care much IMHO. 'Real' information doesn't have a big effect if it doesn't have much meaning or interest for the people. There's the barrier of language and of cultural divergences... internet alone won't bring much change or more 'consciousness' to the people.
 

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Here... take my hand
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Old news is old news. China officials were filmed on tape beating the sh$! out of people for no apparent reason in Tibet. They were unarmed and on the floor. This video was broadcasted on Youtube. Then China banned Youtube. They also banned reporters and journalists from entering Tibet. Idk if China will be back online with Youtube... Old news is old news move on.:)
 

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lazy shmupper
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My bad.

Not all of China. But their government is really pushing the fine line of democracy and dictatorship.
Yes they are of course, I just meant the 'communist' part isn't enough to explain their behaviour, it became such an empty word even if they're still very attached to it.
Trust me the first thing that comes to chinese ppl's minds when they wake up in the morning is not 'communism' but 'how to make money'. :D

Actually the 'Tibet' problem is linked to the way the 'Han' (the dominant ethnic group = 80% of the population) deal with the minorities, and the fact that Tibet has a huge geostrategical importance for the central authorities.
Religion and communism are very secondary in that matter.
The censorship part too has a lot to do with various aspects of the social and cultural structure of the chinese 'world' that many western or other 'outsiders' governments and media fail to understand.

It's sooo complicated. "We're on planet Mars" said my best friend after a few days on our first trip there. "I was wrong. It's much further than Mars" he said after living there for 4 years. :rotflmao:
 

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NextGenerationGaymulation
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That's very true Larque you know chinese well!

Of course young hackers know how to get around these, and you were in a uni environment with a lot of skilled hackers,,, but a lot of people has no clue what a VPN tunnel is or how to use it. They also do not know english, so to filter information especially in chinese and also movies is very effective for this group. The gouverment know the skilled high school students could get around it, and acctually they hire the best ones to create ghostnet to spy on the rest of the world...
 

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lazy shmupper
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Hehe, Ghostnet, I wonder how serious that thing is. Probably much weaker than US's Echelon. ^^

About the hacking, the filtering of the network is so basic in China that using a single proxy outside of the country is enough to get you anywhere, there's no need to be very skilled. Anybody can do that by adding a plugin to a browser or a simple program that finds proxies automaticly.
But yeah there's a freaking, fast increasing, huge amount of net junkies in China, with a proportionally increasing core of skilled hackers. That just can't be controlled.
Teh intawebs will prevail ! :D
 

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Registered Anime Hater
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lol What's so special about that? YouTube's been banned like *takes a break to count...bah I can't be bothered!* a gazillion time here!
 

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Hehe, Ghostnet, I wonder how serious that thing is. Probably much weaker than US's Echelon. ^^

About the hacking, the filtering of the network is so basic in China that using a single proxy outside of the country is enough to get you anywhere, there's no need to be very skilled. Anybody can do that by adding a plugin to a browser or a simple program that finds proxies automaticly.
But yeah there's a freaking, fast increasing, huge amount of net junkies in China, with a proportionally increasing core of skilled hackers. That just can't be controlled.
Teh intawebs will prevail ! :D
Well, not really sure if it has anything to do with this but I read about the hacker attack on USA traffic control systems last week, they didn't really do any harm but they left numerous "timebombs" that were supposed to activate on time of crisis and cripple the systems... The suspects were tought to be russian and chinese hackers. The article also mentioned about the fact that both countries employ hackers that are willing to help the nation on these things... Funny thing is that it made it sound like USA doesn't do that!:lol:
 

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Here... take my hand
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637 Posts
VTUNNEL..........ftw....the solution to all blockages......
I disagree about this. Back in high school would would use **** like this but it always ended up blocked itself in the end. So I only found one solution: Xerobank Browser.... does the same **** without going to a site. Let me put it this way, since it's a browser it can't get blocked, lol. And fyi it's also 100% anonymous since they don't log **** like every other proxy.:thumb:
 

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Banned
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Damn, I think people deserves privacy when they are using the internet. What the hell. I'm glad that here there's no bull**** like that. Things like that completely hurt the user rights for it's own privacy. Godamnmit, that's against the constitution, the right to come and go, stuff like that. Now I'm pissed...... =\ Imagine.. A son of a ***** on the other side monitoring everything you do.. There goes your privacy. Down the toilet with the brownies. I think countries that lives under Democracy should never allow such things.

Now in China there's no way to complain, let the chinese handle their own place like they want. They never allowed too much outside influence down in the history anyway.
 

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Your resident reaper...
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In related news...

Sankaku Complex said:
YouTube has decided to cripple its Korean site rather than comply with a new law which would force it to publish the real names of all contributors and commenters on the site.

An amendment to a “cyber-defamation” law recently went into effect, requiring websites which have more than 100,000 unique users per day to list their real names and national identification card numbers.

What prevents users from falsely supplying these is not clear, but sites have no choice but to comply.

In response to the law, YouTube Korea, in consultation with Google, its US-based parent company, has disabled the ability of its Korean user base to upload videos or make comments on existing videos.

YouTube Korea in its current form can now only be viewed, but not interacted with, by its primary user base. It seems likely that this will pose problems to the growth in Korean language content on the site.

Google justified the maiming of its Korean site by citing its selectively applied “Do no evil” principles. Rachel Whetstone, Google’s vice president of public affairs, posted the following justification on Google’s Korean blog:

Google thinks the freedom of expression is most important value to uphold on the Internet. We concluded in the end that it is impossible to provide benefits to Internet users while observing this country’s law because the law does not fall in line with Google’s principles.

Google’s adherence to its principles runs directly contrary to the intent of the cyber-defamation legislation. The law’s proponents have argued that removing anonymity would curtail much of the savagery springing from the Korean Internet community.

Korean Internet users have a well deserved reputation for thuggish behavior. Numerous and well publicized incidents of mass cyber bullying have lead to real life confrontations, loss of reputation and significant financial losses for their victims.

The most egregious incident led to the suicide of famed actress Choi Jin-sil. Choi was apparently driven to suicide after a series of online rumors viciously attacked the actress’ financial dealings and character.

At times this aggressive online character also spills out onto overseas sites, typically motivated by nationalist indignation.

Korean reactions to the changes made by YouTube have been mostly indifferent. Google itself publicized a workaround where a Korean user could switch their preference setting to a country other than Korea, bypassing the limits set within the Korean site.

Also, Koreans accessing the site outside of Korea and non-Koreans (assuming they do not use the Korean language version) living in Korea have not been affected.

Unlike its presence in the West, YouTube Korea has a much smaller profile, so such a muted reaction is not altogether unexpected.

Via Hani and PC World.

The application of the cyber defamation law seems rather uneven. Popular game forums such as those belonging to Korea’s World of Warcraft, which presumably falls under the amended legislation, still allows for the use of anonymous Internet pseudonyms.
This crap is getting ridiculous. And my parents wonder why I could care less about South Korea nowadays...go figure.

I remember the first day my mother discovered the wonders of Yahoo Korea years back. She asked me to sign her up and do all the annoying stuff for her, and I'm like whatever, it'll only take a few minutes. I spent about 3days :mad:. For some god-only-knows-reason, Yahoo Korea needs your Resident Registration Number (think of social insurance number) to sign up with them! W.T.F!!! Course my mom didn't have hers anymore after spending more then 20years outside the country, becoming a Canadian Citizen and only going back a couple weeks at a time every few years for vacation.

So what did I have to do? Fax Yahoo Korea her drivers license with photo identification, her last address when she was living in Korea, a few references in Korea, and a copy of her birth certificate. All that just to prove she's South Korean born and so that she can go into the members only parts of the site :drool:

/end rant

But I can understand the other side of this debate. PC cafes over there are like ants. They're everywhere. You can't go down a street block without seeing at least 3 of 'em. So tracking down criminals and instigators over the net there is next to impossible. But this is seriously cutting off the peoples freedom to the rest of the world...kinda sad.
 

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lazy shmupper
Joined
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897 Posts
Damn, I think people deserves privacy when they are using the internet. What the hell. I'm glad that here there's no bull**** like that. Things like that completely hurt the user rights for it's own privacy. Godamnmit, that's against the constitution, the right to come and go, stuff like that. Now I'm pissed...... =\ Imagine.. A son of a ***** on the other side monitoring everything you do.. There goes your privacy. Down the toilet with the brownies. I think countries that lives under Democracy should never allow such things.

Now in China there's no way to complain, let the chinese handle their own place like they want. They never allowed too much outside influence down in the history anyway.
Wait, we are all monitored, that is the internet. What did you expect ?
Don't think China is the worst, France just passed a law to create an institution that will monitor ALL the citizen's downloads, tracking the presumably illegal ones.
ISPs will be forced by that institution to send warning emails first, then if you repeat the infraction, cut your connection for months or years while you'll still have to pay the monthly fee PLUS a fine. You can even end up in prison.
That law was requested by the major music records and movies production companies, and the European Parliament said it was against the Rights of Man.
Do you think the French goverment cares ? The people are massively against it, the parliament refused to vote it, so they're going to pass it by force as an 'emergency law'.
So, it's a matter of weeks or months maybe, before one of the most undemocratic and freedom-killing laws on Earth concerning the internet will be apllied.

Oh and another nice thing: that law will also aplly to people who downloaded illegal files up to 3 or 4 years ago. How ? Well the ISPs keep track of everything we do and archive it, they'll just have to open the archives and make'em accessible anytime and without condition to that institution.

Whatever... using the internet means being monitored by countless governments, companies, hackers, etc... when the State makes its own spying obvious or legal, only one thing is left to defend our freedom: continue to cheat, hide, hack, download, etc, MORE and MORE, in order to keep the bastards submerged and powerless.

In the end I hope you see my point: China isn't intruding in people's privacy so much more than other countries do, their government just makes spying and censorship obvious when many others do the same in more subtle or 'legal' ways.
Like you suggested, they don't give a f* of what we think about it, it's their country, the only place on Earth the chinese really care about.
 

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band
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4,912 Posts
In related news...

This crap is getting ridiculous. And my parents wonder why I could care less about South Korea nowadays...go figure.

I remember the first day my mother discovered the wonders of Yahoo Korea years back. She asked me to sign her up and do all the annoying stuff for her, and I'm like whatever, it'll only take a few minutes. I spent about 3days :mad:. For some god-only-knows-reason, Yahoo Korea needs your Resident Registration Number (think of social insurance number) to sign up with them! W.T.F!!! Course my mom didn't have hers anymore after spending more then 20years outside the country, becoming a Canadian Citizen and only going back a couple weeks at a time every few years for vacation.

So what did I have to do? Fax Yahoo Korea her drivers license with photo identification, her last address when she was living in Korea, a few references in Korea, and a copy of her birth certificate. All that just to prove she's South Korean born and so that she can go into the members only parts of the site :drool:

/end rant

But I can understand the other side of this debate. PC cafes over there are like ants. They're everywhere. You can't go down a street block without seeing at least 3 of 'em. So tracking down criminals and instigators over the net there is next to impossible. But this is seriously cutting off the peoples freedom to the rest of the world...kinda sad.
Personally as a Japanese Canadian, I don't really see why South Korea is like that. In terms of internet infrastructure, I've been told that South Korea is quite similar to Japan. Yet Japan imposes none of the limitations and regulations that you pointed out in your post. Neither my family, myself, nor my girlfriend (who has been living outside of Japan for close to 7 years) have had problems like that.
 
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