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Hey,

NO, I AM NOT ASKING WHERE TO FIND A BIOS FROM :)

Actually, I just wanted to make a point. As far as downloading a BIOS goes, don't people actually think it's about as illegal as making backups of your CDs? I mean, you paid all that hard earned cash for a PSX, didn't ya? ;-) doesn't that entitle you to backup firmware too?

Owning a copy of EVERY BIOS too, also raises another question. It's about having a level playing field, anyone agree?

It's a grey area, emulation.

I agree with the board that this is not the place to be asking for ISOS or BIOS images, etc... We want to keep this site open afterall :)

I just wanted to raise it for discussion, after the last topic was closed before I could have my say....

Cheers for reading..
 

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Well, i don't think it's ilegal to own a BIOS file if you own a PSX as much as it isn't ilegal making Backup CDs if you have the original one and u'll be the owner of both. So I agree with u, but other than that I think it's pretty ****ed to have Kalistos copies and all that. Buy games, support the manufactures etc etc...
 

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Well, first, the law of archival backups that allows you to make a single copy of your CDs does not cover ROM images. This is because in order to copy a ROM image, you have to change it's format (Well, I guess there are probably direct ROM to ROM copiers that would not require this, but this isn't what you are referring to). Basically, it was ruled in Nintendo v. Computer & Entertainment that changing the format from the original ROM to a disk format violates Nintendo's rights to prepare derivative works. Basically, this means that Nintendo might at some time want to make the ROM code into a disk code, and make additional profit off of it that way. By your changing the format yourself, you are keeping them from doing so. It's sort of flimsy, I know, but it has held up in court, and is the current law. However, AFAIK, this applies only to the US.

In addition, I'm fairly sure that the law only applies if you make the backup from the original that you own. Even if you own it, it's not legal to download a copy. This might be false information, but the person that told me that was a lawyer (Although not an Intellectual Property Lawyer), so I tend to believe it.

However, even if both of those are false, the one thing I am certain on, is that it's illegal to DISTRIBUTE copyrighted materials, without the copyright holder(s) permission. And, this is by International copyright treaties, which means it affects almost all 1st world nations, and quite a few 2nd world nations. Which means that anyplace you would download it from is breaking the law, and thus you would be an accessory by downloading it...

So, in short, yes, it is illegal to do so, even though it's not illegal to make backups of CDs.

Also, there seems to be some confusion about the whole "emulation is a legal gray area" thing. Yes, it is a grey area, because there are no laws the specifically cover emulation, and no precedence on it, in the form it is today, playing games that were designed for one system on another (There are of course the cases of IBM v Compaq, Atari v Coleco, and to a lesser extent, Tandy v Personal Microcomputer, Atari v Activision, Nintendo v Atari/Tengen, Sega v Accolade, and Apple v. Franklin, all of which dealt with issues that ultimately affected emulation, but do not directly state the legality of emulation). There is also some grey area, in that some people believe that copying of ROM images to disk could be considered legal, using the "personal use" argument that allowed Betamax to win in Sony v Universal. However, I see a lot of people lately talking about the legal grey area of emulation in relation to downloading copyrighted software. There is NO grey area here. The law is quite clear. It IS illegal to use copyrighted software that you do not own a license for. It IS illegal to distribute copyrighted material, without the copyright owner(s) permission. Even using the personal use argument a la Betamax wouldn't change the ability to download ROMs, as it would then no longer be personal use. There is No grey area at all...

And, this doesn't really belong in this forum, either... It doesn't have anything to do with using the BIOS with ePSXe. Moving to general discussion (Maybe it should even belong in off-topic. Can't really make up my mind. Oh well, if another admin thinks it's wrong, feel free to move it again).
 

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Originally posted by LanGaidin
In addition, I'm fairly sure that the law only applies if you make the backup from the original that you own. Even if you own it, it's not legal to download a copy. This might be false information, but the person that told me that was a lawyer (Although not an Intellectual Property Lawyer), so I tend to believe it.
Someone did an extensive research on emulation legality a long ago (don't remember his name, sorrry), and I read some of his reports. According to what I read, you're correct on this point.

[]s Badaro
 

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As far as I'm aware, Sony are still losing money on Playstation units, so if anyone does make an illegal download of the Playstation BIOS in order to run legal, black-disc games (not ISOs, not Pirated copies), then Sony are actually coming out of it better off than if you'd actually gone out and bought a Playstation...

This depends on Sony still making a loss on the consoles, obviously, but I think the theory's sound... Irrelevant, but sound...
 

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Hmmm..

In most cases console manufacturers take a loss selling hardware anyways...They sell the consoles for less then it takes to manufacture and make up the loss in software sales....kinda the reason Sega left the hardware market....

Ah LanGaiden.....a Wheel of Time fan.....
 

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This reminds me of a question that I was think of yesturday. In the case of the commerical emus the bios has been developed by the authors themselves and thus they have no illegality. As this is the case would it be feasible to develop a "bios plugin" for the free emus? If a legal bios could be developed it could be distrubuted with the emu itself. Would this cause any new problems?
 

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speaking of bios, isn't the bios in GBA "emulated" somewhat, at least in the case of VBA and Boycott Advance? can't this be done with PSX's bios? :p
 

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so why not build it in with ePSXe then? :confused: especially if AdriPSX can do it, which isn't retail software.
 

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As far as I'm aware, Sony are still losing money on Playstation units, so if anyone does make an illegal download of the Playstation BIOS in order to run legal, black-disc games (not ISOs, not Pirated copies), then Sony are actually coming out of it better off than if you'd actually gone out and bought a Playstation...

This depends on Sony still making a loss on the consoles, obviously, but I think the theory's sound... Irrelevant, but sound...


I seriously doubt that Sony is still taking a loss on PSX's. The hardware is all 5 year old technology. And, on the PSOne's, there's even less hardware. They can probably manufacture one extremely cheaply, now. However, as you said, it's irrelevant. Sony has proven by suing bleem, inc. and Connectix that they are much more interested in the power than the money. :/

Ah LanGaiden.....a Wheel of Time fan.....

Well, more of an addict than a fan. ;) And, it's Gaidin (I'm sure that Gaidin is Jordan using Gaiden, without using the actual word, as the entire Old Tongue is in the series... It's extremely close to about 10 different languages combined. :)). I know it's pretty much impossible to tell, but my Avatar is Mat. The white lines are where he's swinging his asharandei, and if you look REEEEALLY close, you can see his trademark hat. :p

This reminds me of a question that I was think of yesturday. In the case of the commerical emus the bios has been developed by the authors themselves and thus they have no illegality.

No illegality? Better wait until the courts decide on that, to declare it. :) Unfortunately, we'll never know what the outcome of the VGS case would have been, but maybe bleem, inc. will be around long enough for their case to FINALLY be heard. I wish I knew why it kept getting pushed back...
 

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Hmmm

Well, more of an addict than a fan. And, it's Gaidin (I'm sure that Gaidin is Jordan using Gaiden, without using the actual word, as the entire Old Tongue is in the series... It's extremely close to about 10 different languages combined. ). I know it's pretty much impossible to tell, but my Avatar is Mat. The white lines are where he's swinging his asharandei, and if you look REEEEALLY close, you can see his trademark hat.
Ah.a mere mispelling on our part..al'Lan Mandragoran...the old tongue...hmm...The Aiel called him Gaidin....something like a king without a kingdom...from the blight if we recall...indeed we see Mat's hat...we were actually trying to see if he had his Foxhead medallion..haha.....Been a while..just part through Jordan' current release...

AdriPSX, VGBA, FPSE, do in fact try to use HLE to emulated the BIOS...the downside is that compatibility is not always successful... Boycott also emulates the bios but has the option to use the GBA bios to highten compatibility...AdriPSX current release borrows functions from the PSX bios SCPH1001 for better compatibility....so one way or another it would be difficult for a highly compatible emulator such as EPSXE to resort to...such a step would be a step backwords...
 

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'..AdriPSX current release borrows functions from the PSX bios SCPH1001 for better compatibility..'

Borrows? I hope it returns them when it's done :/
 
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