[Frosty840]

I was just wondering if anyone knew a good graphics plugin that works at 480x360, as I believe that's the actual resolution a PSX runs at.
Running the PC at that resolution would help in games like Final Fantasy where the background is screwed because the resolution isn't right.

 

[kairi00]

As far as I know, PSX resolution is 320x240... and can you post a screenshot showing the screwed-up background? I don't seem to have that problem.

 

[Frosty840]

Not screwed up exactly, but with those static backgrounds, you can see the pixels stretching and compressing as you move accross the screen. Maybe I'm oversensitive.

Actually, I'm definately oversensitive, because if I try to play a Final Fantasy game at 320 resolution, my eyes bleed. That's why I don't think that's the proper resolution, you see...

 

[Enigma1982]

If your card have TV output try it.It also help you too

 

[kairi00]

Originally posted by Frosty840
Actually, I'm definately oversensitive, because if I try to play a Final Fantasy game at 320 resolution, my eyes bleed. That's why I don't think that's the proper resolution, you see...

Hey, just because it doesn't look good for you doesn't mean that it's not the proper resolution I'm 100% sure that 320x240 is the actual resolution. Why don't your eyes bleed when you play it on the real PSX? Simple: TV. Your TV set has scanlines, lower resolution, and round pixels, if I'm not mistaken. This mask the extreme pixellation that you get when you play it on your computer monitor.

In order to fix this, there are several things you could try:
1. Use TV out (as Enigma suggested).
2. Depending on the graphics plugin you're using, try disabling filtering on the backgrounds... that way you'll see less of the compression/stretcing effect.
3. Also make sure that the resolution you're playing at is the exact multiple of 320x240 (e.g. 640x480, 960x720, etc etc)...

What's your system specs and plugin configuration, btw?

 

[Frosty840]

Hey, just because it doesn't look good for you doesn't mean that it's not the proper resolution I'm 100% sure that 320x240 is the actual resolution. Why don't your eyes bleed when you play it on the real PSX? Simple: TV. Your TV set has scanlines, lower resolution, and round pixels, if I'm not mistaken. This mask the extreme pixellation that you get when you play it on your computer monitor.

I know that, but you can clearly see the backcrounds stretching in all three resolutions. It doesn't show up in a lot of games because the backgrounds are usually made of polygons, and so they're compensated for by the PC drawing a clear, clean line.

With the picture-based backgrounds in the Final Fantasies, you can clearly see the pixels resizing as you move around the screen.

On a sidenote, I'm using the UK (and hence PAL) version of the game, but as far as I'm aware, UK Playstations only added letterboxing at the top and bottom of the screen, and didn;t makeany graphical changes. Even so, a UK screen has 1.2 times as many pixels on as a US screen...

I can't argue the point with you, as I can't seem to find the actual data about the resolution of a PSX screen anywhere at the moment.

As for my system:
PIII 500
128MB RAM
GeForce 256PRO

But, as I said, I can see the pixels resizing when the screen moves, and at lower resolutions I can see lines across the screen where they've been resized when the picture is still.

320x240 is certainly not the correct version for my copies of the Final Fantasies.

 

[Shadow Lady]

if im not incorrect the psx resolution is not 320x240
but 320x224

 

[Frosty840]

You know... There are only a very, very few of these lines across the picture, little enough to count, in fact... So I'm probably wrong about the resolution being as high as 480, but it's certainly not exactly on 320x240...

Well, that's the problem nearly sorted. Now all I need is someone to code me a plugin that'll work and an engineer to build me a monitor to display it...

 

[ebola]

why would you want to use a tv when the picture on a monitor is 100000 times better.

 

[Frosty840]

More or less what I was thinking, but then, I've got these lines up and down my screen... Meh

 

[kairi00]

Originally posted by Frosty840
More or less what I was thinking, but then, I've got these lines up and down my screen... Meh

Can you post a screenshot? I want to see what lines you're referring to... just curious.

 

[Frosty840]

I've taken a screenshot, and from what I can tell there are A number of distinct lines running through it, of double-sized pixels, starting with the very top row and working downwards as I've noted them.

I know there are some vertical glitches as well, but I honestly can't pick them out unless they're moving onscreen.

I've attached three BMP files (to preserve the image integrity) in a zipfile. Hopefully I've done it right and you'll be able to see them.

A note, I've used 320 resolution pictures because it's easier to see the individual pixels on them. Needless to say, you're going to have to zoom in a lot to see everything clearly.

In the first image (FF9A), there's a clear double-pixel line running through the green splodge on the rock-pillarat the top of the picture. To show that the double-pixels move through the image, rather than being a part of it, FF9B has been included, which shows the same green splodge on the pillar, this time with no double-pixel.

In FF9Boxes I've taken FF9B and highlighted all of the areas in the picture with a double-pixel line running through them. Just to show how often it happens through the picture, and that there's a regular pattern to it.

NOTE: The top pixel of the picture is also double-height. I didn't circle it because it's at the top, and I can't
The bottom pixel is not double-height.

I swear there's vertical pixel resizing as well, but for the life of me, I can't spot it in the picture. This indicates to me that in the PSX resolution is LESS than the PC-screen's resolution, and so pixels have been squashed, rather than expanded, resulting in an image which looks normal when still, but will show up as the picture moves, and the pixels go missing.


Thorough enough for you?

 

[Frosty840]

Just crept over the limit. 2 files.

 

[kairi00]

Whoah... that's... definitely... a very detailed analysis... thanks!! I'll have a closer look once I've come home from school....

 

[Frosty840]

Looks to be sixteen double-height lines on that picture (including the unboxed top row).

So I'm guessing that NSTC TVs have a 336 row screen.
Dunno about width, though.

 

[fivefeet8]

Here is a screenshot of FF7.. The backgrounds look pretty good.. No pixelation.. FSAA helps a lot with 2d stuff.. Plus resolutions at multiples or close to multiples of the actual psx resolution helps too like Kari00 said.. Even when moving around I can't see any pixelation.. This shot is at a resolution of 640x480..

 

[fivefeet8]

Ok people.. Lewpys glide pluggin has an option ingame to show all the details of the psx output screen.. Even the original psx resolution.. Most newer psx games use a resolution of 320x224.. But some psx games use the 320x240 res too.. so it really depends on the games sometimes.. Some use a higher resolution and some use a slightly lower res.. Infact, some psx games use one resolution for 2d scenes where you walk around a lot and another one for full 3d battle sequences.. Gran Tourismo uses several resolutions.. Here is some shots of the game using lewpys glide pluggin with all info shown.. Remember I am using a resolution of 800x600 but lewpys glide pluggin shows the actual resolution of the psx..

 

[Frosty840]

Well, I've had a quick recheck and found that, while Final Fantasy 8 suffers from the problem in the same way as Final Fantasy 9 does, Final Fantasy 7 is a different kettle of fish altogether.

In most screens, there is no visible problem with the picture, it's true.
BUT, in certain zoomed-out screens, such as the Sector 7 Support Pillar, and the Shinra Building, the stretch lines can be seen while you're walking slowly, and sometimes the stretch marks can be left on parts of the picture. On zoomed-in sections, the problem isn't nearly as obvious.
Also, when stretch lines are seen, they will be in the same position relative to the picture, that it, the are of disturbance will move up or down the screen with the rest of the picture, and it will always be the same pixels that are stretched, although, the disturbances do seem to occur at the same 1/16th interval as they do in the other two games.

My theory is this: During the game, I have seen certain pixels coming up in the wrong colour as I walk through the screen. Some are pink, or green or whatever colour.
This implies that the screens in FF7 are made up of overlapping images, and that in high-res PC monitors, they're not overlapping coorectly because of the increased resoluton.
So when you come to a piece of picture that's stretched, you're only affectng a small part of the picture, and so the fault does not show up all over the screen. This is the same reason why the disturbances move within the screen, and not within the picture.

Why doesn't the whole picture glitch, like it does in FF8 and FF9?

Dunno. But it's still a good theory

EDIT: Oh, well. FiveFeet8 saves the day. Well done.
So no way to actually get the emulators to sense this change and take it into account, then?
I'll just wait for build 2.5 to turn up before something as complex as THAT gets sorted out.

Thanks anyway, peeps

 

[fivefeet8]

here is an ingame shot.. The game uses a different resolution for it.. I think GT2 uses a different resolution for replays too, but I am not sure at the moment..

 

[kairi00]

Ahh... somehow those screenshots refreshed my memory.... I recall reading from the PSX documentation project (or something like that) that the PSX supports various horizontal and vertical resolutions... supported values are

H: 256, 320, 384, 512, and 640
V: 240 and 480... 224 could be there too, I don't quite remember.

And.. boy Frosty840, you got really picky eyes there!
I've examined the screenies that you showed me, and I know what you're referring to... sheesh... some people are hard to please

PS. just wondering, you took those screens using the soft plugin right?