Random Thoughts Thread. (Clean version)

[@ruantec]

OMFG! is so freaking hot here... my ba**s are melting.

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[KrossX]

Yet 2ºC here this morning~

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[@ruantec]

You are on the other side of the world we have 38° right now.

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[Ahielia]

22 here :-)
No sunlight though.

[Radix865]

About 10 C° and it's also raining... In short, the normal finnish summer weather!

They did predict it's getting hot next week... I just hope I don't get any more outdoor jobs then. I just want to sit at the office and do some intensive copy paste!

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[Xianrad]

It feels like 100 here, and the power is out. There was a very powerful storm last night, and thousands of people are without power. Ugh! It's hot and sticky, mighty uncomfortable. One person was electrocuted when a powerline felled from a tree dropped on him...crazy. I hope they get the power ob soon..

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Love is of all passions the strongest for it attacks simultaneously the head the heart and the senses

[Fadingz]

Originally Posted by KrossX

In here, the defense must not be disproportionate with the attack. That is, if unarmed dudes attack, breaking all their bones and taking their heads off wouldn't count as self defense. So there IS some reserve involved when defending. Same about killing when the attack wasn't life threatening.

If the attack is rape attempt, then defense is to rape back?
doesn't make sense, lol.
In any case, life first.
That is why I said call 911 after knocking the guy off onto the ground.
I never mentioned killing him.

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

Why is the resident artist giving out fighting advice? You lead a double life fadz?

Well, I do have some background in martial art, fencing (epee), and etc.
I'm pretty good with bare hand, and I'm deadly with a pole or a stick, let's put it that way lol.

Originally Posted by Xblade

^This.

Especially in the U.S.

You'd be surprised(though at this point unlikely) at the stupid crap that transpires in our courts. You might get sued in a self defense attemp, even if they were trying to murder you.

well, anything is better than getting raped/killed.
If the deed is really done for self defense, then there should be no regret.
Like in school. If some fooktard bullies me, I'll kick the crap out of him/her even if I might get in trouble.
The last things I wanna lose are my voice and my dignity.
These are what make me human.

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[KrossX]

Originally Posted by Fadingz

If the attack is rape attempt, then defense is to rape back?
doesn't make sense, lol.
In any case, life first.
That is why I said call 911 after knocking the guy off onto the ground.
I never mentioned killing him.

Disproportionate doesn't mean equal, that's why they're different words. A rape attempt can happen without a life threatening situation. And a perpetrator can be disabled without killing him. And even if you have to kill, stabbing 1000000 times can also make hard to be considered defense.

Originally Posted by Fadingz

Well, I do have some background in martial art, fencing (epee), and etc.
I'm pretty good with bare hand, and I'm deadly with a pole or a stick, let's put it that way lol.

I'm a martial artist too, and one of the first things they should've tought you is to avoid unnecessary violence, specially when attacked on the street. Actually, avoid confrontation if possible then do as minimum as needed to break free. Besides, going all kung fu in such situation can make you a quick bullet target. And I've yet to meet someone who can dodge bullets.

Originally Posted by Fadingz

well, anything is better than getting raped/killed.
If the deed is really done for self defense, then there should be no regret.
Like in school. If some fooktard bullies me, I'll kick the crap out of him/her even if I might get in trouble.
The last things I wanna lose are my voice and my dignity.
These are what make me human.

Anything is better? Like going to jail for years by murder alongside other murderers who can and most likely will rape and possible kill you too? You seem to be too hot headed for a martial artist.

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[Fadingz]

Originally Posted by KrossX

I'm a martial artist too, and one of the first things they should've tought you is to avoid unnecessary violence, specially when attacked on the street. Actually, avoid confrontation if possible then do as minimum as needed to break free. Besides, going all kung fu in such situation can make you a quick bullet target. And I've yet to meet someone who can dodge bullets.



Anything is better? Like going to jail for years by murder alongside other murderers who can and most likely will rape and possible kill you too? You seem to be too hot headed for a martial artist.

Where did you guys get the idea of 'aggressiveness' lol
Like I said before, never kill anyone.
My final 'blow' is a 911 call...
How can you kill someone by kicking him in the balls? >.>

Also, how is toe stepping, chin hitting and kneeing in the balls all kong-fu?
What one of it is a kong-fu? xD
She is not doing any throw or anything.
These attacks only aim for weakness y simply catching the opponent off-guard, doesn't really require any skill or strength.

and I SAID, don't do it to anyone with no aggressive intention.

Even in the 2 vs 1 case,
The reason why I said using #1 as shield for #2 because you can just say #2 killed #1. Never confront #2

I also told her to run, not to kill... the attack is just to buy some time by entangling the attackers.

There are many ways to kill a person, I didn't tell her anything.
and I said, 'choke' not 'strangle'.
Choke = knock out, strangle = kill.

In case of 2 v 1 rape, one is most likely to grab while the other does the action.
So you have to knock one out and use it as shield while escaping or calling for help?
Do you really expect anyone to outrun 2 people?
Either one of them can easily grab something and pitch...

Remember game theory.
Enemies are not dumb asses.
You should prevent their next move, not just blocking the current move.

and back to the start again, never be alone with someone you have any doubt.
If there is an unsafe route/place just avoid as much as possible.
It's just so common sense that it's not much worth mentioning, so I just told her what should can do if something really happens.

As in actual martial art training, you spend 5 years how to avoid combats and learn moral.
but I seriously doubt she or anyone here wants to hear those.

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Last edited by SCHUMI_4EVER; July 1st, 2012 at 14:05..

[Radix865]

C-c-c-c-combo breaker!!! Seriously fadingz, there is an edit button...

You do give good advices though, and obvious things are not always so obvious... People usually take shady routes on a whim, thinking they can save 5 minutes or something.

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[Fadingz]

Originally Posted by Radix865

C-c-c-c-combo breaker!!! Seriously fadingz, there is an edit button...

You do give good advices though, and obvious things are not always so obvious... People usually take shady routes on a whim, thinking they can save 5 minutes or something.

c'c'c'c'c'c'mon, never remember the automerge function on this forum, haha

Well, those 'common senses' usually take 5 years to learn as I said.
Unless she wants to start training in martial art.
attention to detail, trade-offs, and etc.
but yeah, can't beat common sense into anyone on a forum, so...

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[KrossX]

Originally Posted by Fadingz

Where did you guys get the idea of 'aggressiveness' lol [...]

The following is what prompted my first reply, and then subsequent post prompted a subsequent reply, etc...

Originally Posted by Fadingz

Anyways, there is nothing to reserve if you are under attack, just please don't do this do someone who has no mal intent, lol.

Bad advice is bad, no matter how many years are spent trying to learn morals and common sense ineffectively.

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[Fadingz]

Would you please give her a kind suggestion then, CrossX sensei.
Other than straight up running of course.
Yeah, try to run when someone is grabbing your hand...
If you tell her to pin him down without hurting him, then be my guest.
Even black belts cannot successfully execute these moves efficiently enough in real fights.
oh, I almost forgot, tell her to put up a smile and kindly ask them to go away.
She is no professional fighter,
if she thinks she has anything in reserve, she will only tickle the potential rapists, if not anger/excite them even more.
If she gives out all she gets, then perhaps she has a chance to crack an opening to excape or call for help.

Advice for any untrained person is to attack the weakness with all the might and hope for the best to create some openings to run.

I figure you are just pulling my words out of context.
I am targeting in her situation specifically.
I also love how you intentionally ignore some of my sentences.

Anyways, as long as they don't have weapons...

I'm quoting myself, and you can dodge your own bullets with somersaults, buddy.

The whole idea about telling women/men not to fight back when raped because they might get jailed for excessive self-defense is just bull****.
It's just gonna increase the crime rate for rape.
Laws are made for those who abuse their rights, not for those who really need help.
Who on earth in the right mind and untrained can execute a defense not more threatening than the attack yet enough to put the opponent under control.
If you really know martial art, then you should know how hard it is to pin someone down without hurting him/her in a REAL fight, not training.
Especially when the rapist is releasing excess amount of testosterone, making him even more aggressive.

Lastly, all martial arts are created for one and only one intent, to kill others and to keep oneself alive at the same time.
It is the modern society, in which close combat wars are no longer common, modifies various forms of martial arts into self defense and moral training.
It is not until modern days has martial art became a type of sport.
The moves in sport type martial art has also be heavily modified to not to hurt the opponent.
All these moves are, ultimately, ineffective in real combat.
The first form of respect also originated from training partners and teachers.
If teachers kill the pupils, pupils kill pupils, then there would be nothing left.
Understand who is stronger than you are, avoid confrontation.
so on so forth.
Perhaps you can dig into martial art history a little bit.

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Last edited by Fadingz; July 1st, 2012 at 00:03..

[KrossX]

Is not uncommon that a commoner attacked goes overboard and not only kills, but completely destroys the attacker's face in a rage burst. Or finds something sharp and spends many many minutes stabbing. This just makes it harder legally later on if that instance is reached. Not to mention a nightmare here and there, and officialy being a murderer too.

As for advice, you think anyone without training will remember combat tips, or even remember and execute them effectively? No. The best advice I can think of, is go learn some self defense before you regret not haven't done so. Depending on how good you are with your body, you can learn a lot in a few months.

Other than that, it depends on the kind of attacker. Hit toes and balls? The thugs near here would laugh at you for that and then stab or just shoot you. When full of adrenaline, that's just even less effective. But the drug addict I saw last week would go away crying with just a slap (unless he had a gun). Screaming for help is usually a good start, but can also make them knock you out quickly. And if you're strong enough that you can overpower your exit, with luck you'll get away without being stabbed. Anything that can be of use, requires a minimum training. Even points of pain to exploint would require more information that can be put in a post, or in many posts, and some practice. The situation should by all means be avoided and without all that, it's pure and absolute luck.

Heck, even some youtube videos of self defense could be of more help than anything in a post. But then, that means it's also not too late to go learn proper.

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[Fadingz]

Originally Posted by KrossX

Is not uncommon that a commoner attacked goes overboard and not only kills, but completely destroys the attacker's face in a rage burst. Or finds something sharp and spends many many minutes stabbing. This just makes it harder legally later on if that instance is reached. Not to mention a nightmare here and there, and officialy being a murderer too.

Totally, but I never told her to pick up a weapon...

Originally Posted by KrossX

As for advice, you think anyone without training will remember combat tips, or even remember and execute them effectively? No. The best advice I can think of, is go learn some self defense before you regret not haven't done so. Depending on how good you are with your body, you can learn a lot in a few months.

Other than that, it depends on the kind of attacker. Hit toes and balls? The thugs near here would laugh at you for that and then stab or just shoot you. When full of adrenaline, that's just even less effective. But the drug addict I saw last week would go away crying with just a slap (unless he had a gun). Screaming for help is usually a good start, but can also make them knock you out quickly. And if you're strong enough that you can overpower your exit, with luck you'll get away without being stabbed. Anything that can be of use, requires a minimum training. Even points of pain to exploint would require more information that can be put in a post, or in many posts, and some practice. The situation should by all means be avoided and without all that, it's pure and absolute luck.

Heck, even some youtube videos of self defense could be of more help than anything in a post. But then, that means it's also not too late to go learn proper.

again, you are talking about weapons...
if they have weapons, just don't attack.
and btw, if they have weapons pointed at you, you can kill them legally.
lastly, few months of self defense training for throwing and pinning isn't gonna do a crap in real situation, not to lie.
Sure you can throw them, but nothing is stopping them from standing back up.
Pinning? for a women to pin down an aroused man? close to zero.

If anything you are suggesting something even more aggressive and kong-fu than what I mentioned...

I just did a quick search on self defense btw.
They all clearly say:
1. avoid
2. push back
3. attack vital spots.
sounds like I said earlier, doesn't it.

and all those things about getting off the grip and etc are totally useless unless you are professional and can do it in less than 1 sec.
If I was attacking, the moment I feel you are trying to get lose, I would punch you in the face before you even have the chance to break free.
It's gonna be REAL combat, not dojo, no referee.
also, female hands are so tender, with a firm grip, you can guarantee to block the blood flow, if not snapping it.
Don't tell me an untrained women can do it.
And dn't tell me you are gonna tell all women to beat on the wall with their wrist everyday to harden up their bones.

"Go and take some classes" is easy to say.
Remember, all those demonstrating self-defense techniques are trained for years.
Executing some random moves without mastery is just a call for death.
This is not a game in which you get starter, journeyman, expert, master.
This is not a martial art class you get white belt and black belt.
This is real life.
If you are not a master in the technique, you lose.
Mastery does not just require proper movement.
It also requires timing, execution time, and reflex.
Do you really think the attacker is gonna come from the same place as in training and etc.
and the real attacker isn't gonna give you time or tell you right or wrong.
you need to feel the sensation.
but how many years of training does it take to understand the 'feel'? I hope you know better.

Well, taking self defense classes is by all means useful, but it gonna be useless, funnily, without mastery.
If an attacker could be fended off with un-mastered moves to pin/un-grip/throw, then that attacked would probably retreat with a b!tchslap.

Most people just need some simple, easy attacks.
like kick in the balls, palm strike the chin, stomp on toe, bite, or stab in the eyes.
These won't do much, but they will buy time.
That is what people really need to call for help.

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Last edited by Fadingz; July 1st, 2012 at 00:41..

[DarkSamus]

lol quote from Australian comedian...

Aarrgh!!!!!! 4 hour delay at airport. I'm so bored I'm actually calculating how long I'd have to be married to Tom Cruise for to pay off my mortgage...

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Because I'm not an idiot.

[_E_]

Martial arts is the endless path of developing human character, not fighting...
I find it saddening when people take it's technique and miss it's soul.

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[Fadingz]

Originally Posted by _E_

Martial arts is the endless path of developing human character, not fighting...
I find it saddening when people take it's technique and miss it's soul.

Yes, the path to martial art is, I don't disagree.
but the moves are derived from wars to defeat enemies, or to kill rather.
nothing is gonna change this historical fact.

People with experience in killing, often filled with regret, took or started the path of martial art to regain human character.
That is why I say, if someone really picks up martial art, it is gonna be an endless path.
An ordinary person who knows nothing but the moves just gonna use them as weapons, to kill.

I never mentioned using martial art moves btw.
I even adviced not to use martial art moves.
Martial art moves are aimed to kill, and only use them when necessary, as in wars.
Common places for self defense do not require martial art moves, but martial art mentality.
I totally disagree people learning moves without the mentality. All paths to martial art should start with mentality training. Even in fencing, we start with handshakes and the sense of distance. First few years of training, we train without any sword or blade.

Ordinary people do not require a body built for martial art, but we all should appreciate the mentality of a true martial artist.
Picking up a martial art class rapidly is not gonna teach you anything about the mentality, but a heavily modified body.

Mentality for martial art is not something that can be taught in classes.
For it is the appreciation of self, surrounding, and world.
It's something one has to learn on one's own.

I find it really funny how the topic shifted from advising a girl how to escape in case of getting raped into martial art misuse.
I somehow got a feeling that most people are picturing a person like Bruce Lee doing what I advised, not an ordinary girl... something like a step would break the toe, a knee would pop the balls, a palm strike would break the chin, and hitting on the balls will kill the guy... which would alter the meaning a lot, and might be where the replies are coming from...
Quoting myself from the origin of this derailing:

To defend:
1. step on toe with heel
2. knee in the balls
3. palm strike in the chin
4. beat the sh!t out of his balls. (or grab the balls and pull if you dare lol)
that will probably finish him off at this point.
5. dial 911

The premise is that the girl knows she is gonna get raped.
1. Step on toe is no technique nor does it cause too much damage, it is merely a shift of attention.
2. Knee in the ball is not a technique either, just the fact that the knee is probably the hardest part of a girl with the most force that can possibly buy some time
3. Push his face away to buy some time
4. It's not gonna kill him, just buys more time. It's not even immoral. It's the only weak point that can buy a girl some time to do #5.
5. ... nothing to say here.
The main point is to buy time and find time to dial 911.
Not to kill the guy.

As for the premise, it's up to the girl to decide.
That is when martial art kicks in, so I'm not giving any advice there.
How to avoid getting raped, and how to realize a situation leading to rape.
That is what can't be explained in simple words.
When it really comes down to this point, the goal is to play the time game.
which is what I have been mentioning.

All these derailed discussions feel like the removal of capital punishment.
Not to hurt the opponent during real fight?
No that is not what martial art is about... that is training.
Martial art = avoid combat, realize situation, escape, else observe. Use one blow to finish off. Observe the surrounding again.
A real martial artist, however, should never run into the last option.
Even during the training nowadays, no one teaches you the last reserve. All those techniques, moves, and etc. just teach you how to avoid combat, realize situation, escape, else observe.
If anyone picks up martial art just to learn the last reserve for physical defense and offense, he/she will be seriously disappointed and miss out the big picture.

-EDIT-

Anyways, this will be my last comment on this matter:
Take a class to learn how to: avoid combat, realize situation, escape, else observe.
Don't take a class to learn the moves, it will just kill you when it really happens.
If it really ends up in the situation, just use a few blows and conserve energy to buy some time.
If you try hard to get the grip loose or pin the attack down, you will just waste your energy for running.
Call 911 or call for help.

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Last edited by Fadingz; July 1st, 2012 at 14:29..

[Radix865]

There are martial arts that are actually aiming for non-lethal self-defense... Like Aikido, which was developed to be completely non-lethal.

Ueshiba's senior students have different approaches to aikido, depending partly on when they studied with him. Today aikido is found all over the world in a number of styles, with broad ranges of interpretation and emphasis. However, they all share techniques learned from Ueshiba and most have concern for the well-being of the attacker.

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[Fadingz]

Originally Posted by Radix865

There are martial arts that are actually aiming for non-lethal self-defense... Like Aikido, which was developed to be completely non-lethal.

Doesn't matter what you learn.
A real training in martial art doesn't teach you any lethal or effective techniques at all.
They all teach you the heart to be a martial artist.

Moves are different from people to people.
Body sizes and built causes moves to vary from one to another.
When you have the mentality, you will naturally know what moves you can use.
That is why there are so many forms for martial arts, so many lines under each form.

Aikido, specifically, actually doesn't intend to teach any body movement, the main goal is to teach the mentality. There is why there is no aggressive movements. Then again, these moves are useless if you don't have the mentality, which takes years to train.

All the moves taught at the dojo are nothing but tools, if you have no clue how to use them, it's better not knowing them at all.
It's better to have the knowledge to know how to use tools and find them on your own.

All moves you learn during classes in short time are moves heavily modified for training purposes, even if you can execute them perfectly, you are still training. You still have to observe the situation to add and modify the moves.

The origin of black belt came from blood stains, wears, and tears.
You gain real experience from actual scenarios.
Us commoners who are just taking classes will be forever white belts.
A 'black belt' given at a dojo is just the start of a new training.

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Last edited by Fadingz; July 1st, 2012 at 15:04..